Since they stopped using asbestos in brakes...

JayO

What is it with the non-metallic brake pads these days ?

I just had my second set of front brakes done yesterday on my 2012 Caravan, a company car I drive for work.
It's only got 60K miles on it, granted I do carry a fair amount of weight in the back, but c'mon the first set was done at 30K.

Now my wife just called me that the front brakes on her Kia minivan were grinding, so I called the shop to see when they could get her in.
I did the last set myself and I remember getting those rotors off sucked, so this time I'll pay to have someone else do them.

I just looked at the receipt for the last set of pads and rotors I bought, and noticed I wrote the mileage on the paperwork.
It was 30K miles ago !

What the hell gives ?!
I remember putting almost 90K miles on cars with the factory brakes !

I don't know if it's the lack of asbestos, or just planned obsolesce.
Maybe somebody finally figured out that making them like crap triples their profit.

It's definitely not just VW parts that are made like crap these days, it seems to be industry wide ! Evil or Very Mad

- Jay

Mike Fisher · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject:

www.Rockauto.com had like 10 different brake shoes/brands for our Nissan to pick from, so we ordered a mid level 'quiet' shoe that my wife is happy with.
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minger · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject:

I have asbestos tiles under parts of the floor on my house. You are welcome to use some to fashion some old school pads. I'll even throw in some lead from my 1936 house paint so you can old school your gasoline.

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject:

look at the weight of some of these pigs today...plastic junk and all, they still weigh in at that of a 55 Chevy

back at the dealer, I was seeing cars as early as 20k needing brakes. I am not going to get into it here because I don't feel like typing but research pad harness...there are trade offs....more rotor wear/noise etc.

that, and people want cheap parts...this is a result of that. pony up and go OEM
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vwracerdave · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:28 pm Post subject:

They have not used asbestos in brakes and clutches for over 50 years now.
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joe56vw · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject:

yes they make the parts cheaply and yes they make most money if they wear out faster but...

think about how different the way people drive today compared to 20-30-50 years ago
lots of stop and go, everyone is riding each others asses and braking hard, racing from stop light to stop light, etc....

I would bet the brakes on the car owned by a little old lady that drives slow and stops 10 feet before the stop line lasts a lot longer then yours do Wink

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JayO · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject:

JayO · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject:

JayO · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject:

e&m_ghia · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:47 pm Post subject:

I haven't had any issue with excessive brake wear in… decades.

Our daily drivers are Subarus now-days. But I don't recall any issues on the Mazda I had some years back, either.

But these have all been manual shift cars in recent times. (I'm too cheap to pay the sales price for an automatic on a new car, and E refuses to drive them.)

If I go back to automatics I had decades ago, I recall they were awful on brakes. Datsun, Toyota, Chevy backward in time… (Yes, it was long enough ago, that Nissans were called Datsuns.)

I used to wonder about that - always figured it had something to do with driving manual transmissions properly, vs. having the automatic transmission fighting the brakes all the time in traffic.

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject:

TDCTDI · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject:

I would also reassess ones driving habits, technology has made it so that vehicles have much shorter stopping distances. ABS allows the manufacturers to increase braking pressures & more bias towards the rear so that the vehicle doesn't dive as much (anybody else remember cars getting 2-3 sets of front brakes to a set of rears). This causes people to become more complacent in the abilities of the brakes & therefore wait longer before braking or to follow closer, when the need for braking arises, it's going to be more aggressive.
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gt1953 · Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:31 am Post subject:

I have a 2001 GMC 1/2 ton. 90,000 still have original front brakes.
Had a 1985 S-10 put 175,000 on it and never put brakes on it.
Its about how and where you drive. Not so much stop and go here.
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I think it has to do with the type of pads you choose. I had a 1998 Astro van with front discs and rear drums. OEM fronts lasted about 50M miles, then I bought Raybestos discs that barely went 20M, then the next non-Ray set went 50M. And this is in stop and go LA. Go figure.

Bruce · Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject:

When you look at some pads, they have bits of brass wires embeded in them. I think it was to improve the life of the pads. I heard recently that this brass was banned because some brass alloys have a tiny amount of lead in them.

This may be one reason your pads don't last as long.

As usual, blame it on the State of California.
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modok · Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject:

When asbestos was used in brake pads commonly 30 years ago 30,000 miles was considered a long life.
With the way people drive today it would be less. People these days are very brake happy, like to drive 45mph and screech to a halt at a red light every 1/4 mile. They didn't learn to drive in a truck or a pickup hauling a trailer. I don't mind it. Brakes are cheep. The time you saved by driving aggressively was worth more than the coast of the brakes pads for sure.

If you want to make the brakes last 100,000 miles i know a few drivers you could learn from LOL, but you might not get there as fast.

JayO · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:36 am Post subject:

Wow, I didn't expect this many responses to my initial rant, some good points here.
I didn't think about the popularity of automatic trans, nowadays, as opposed to manual trans. cars years ago, that's a good point.
And the fact that everyone is in such a damn hurry these days (that's probably the reason my wife need brakes at 30K).

I based my rant on the fact that for the past 30 years, I have gotten a company van (which has always been an automatic).
Our fleet keeps them for 80K miles then we turn them in to be sold at auction.

At first it was full sized vans, now for the past 15 years or so, it has been minivans.
It works out that aprox. every 2 years I get a new van, and we've run the gamut from Ford, to Chevy, to Chrysler and back.

In that time, it works out that I have had 13 or 14 vans all different makes and models.
I can only remember 2 or 3 times in the last 30 years, that I have had to put brakes in any one of those vans, and certainly not 2 sets in any one van !!

I may be totally off base here, but here's my own theory :

I think that whatever replacement they found for asbestos in the first place, does not last as long in what they calling "non-metallic" or "semi-metallic" brakes nowadays.
That was the first decline, and now with manufactures looking to cut mfg. costs and increase profit margins, they are using even cheaper materials that last even less than the old original replacement material.

It is sad to think that the new norm is to have brakes replaced on each major vehicle service, which usually is at 30K and 60K miles.
What's next, replacing transmissions or engines as part of the 30K maintenance ? Rolling Eyes

Sorry, my rant is over now, it is true that they don't make things like they used to.

Get off my lawn you damn kids !!! Embarassed

- Jay

joe56vw · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:28 am Post subject:

ever think that it might be the cheap ass metal that china uses for the rotors?
and that since it's shit metal it wears out the pads faster Confused

but since it's a company car don't they pay for the brakes? so why do you care so much?

just a thought though Wink

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JayO · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:50 am Post subject:

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:41 am Post subject:

problem with cutting them these days is 1) corrosion here in the NE and 2) even while in "spec", they are thinner and way more prone to warp (due to driving style etc) and there isn't a shop on the planet who want's that come back

so, yea, you get the whole deal
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