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Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

They do bushings and resize big end. Will balance for another $25. Rod bolts are not new.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
They do bushings and resize big end. Will balance for another $25. Rod bolts are not new.


I don't much mind reusing my own rod bolts, but I worry about using a set that some gorilla may have strong armed sometime in the past. You might go with new nuts at least.
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

So which option do you think would be best? Thanks.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

By the time you have shipping both from and back too EMW I would suspect that the cost will be about the same. Your decision might well hinge on how well you know your local guy.

Van Cafe has reconditioned WBXer rods with new bolts pretty cheap, you might call them and see if they can supply rods for a Type 4.
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

I like my local guy. He doesn't talk much, but got across that he does 3 angle valve jobs before I could talk his ear off about what I don't know. He doesn't seem to think that VW's are special. He tells me what he can't do. He said that he could check my rods for straightness and do the bushings, but I had to provide the wrist pin I would use. Seems pretty straightforward.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
I like my local guy. He doesn't talk much, but got across that he does 3 angle valve jobs before I could talk his ear off about what I don't know. He doesn't seem to think that VW's are special. He tells me what he can't do. He said that he could check my rods for straightness and do the bushings, but I had to provide the wrist pin I would use. Seems pretty straightforward.


Each wrist pin needs to be fitted to a rod to do it right. It is a by feel thing. When they are done right you can hold the oiled pin in the rod, let go of it, and it will slowly fall through then out instead of just dropping into your hand.

He should check the big ends too and balance them for you while he is at it. That will help your engine run smoother and last longer. It won't cost much.

Get new rod nuts. When you tighten them you will feel if they are stretching. While rod bolts can fail in a catastrophic way, with the junk out there today I would trust used ones more than new ones. If you buy new aftermarket then you will have to resize the bolt holes an you may induce stress cracking into the rods. Use new nuts on the old bolts. Bring them up 1/3 the torque each nut at a time until you get to full torque. If one stretches you will feel it.
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1967250s
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
orwell84 wrote:
I like my local guy. He doesn't talk much, but got across that he does 3 angle valve jobs before I could talk his ear off about what I don't know. He doesn't seem to think that VW's are special. He tells me what he can't do. He said that he could check my rods for straightness and do the bushings, but I had to provide the wrist pin I would use. Seems pretty straightforward.


Each wrist pin needs to be fitted to a rod to do it right. It is a by feel thing. When they are done right you can hold the oiled pin in the rod, let go of it, and it will slowly fall through then out instead of just dropping into your hand.

He should check the big ends too and balance them for you while he is at it. That will help your engine run smoother and last longer. It won't cost much.
Get new rod nuts. When you tighten them you will feel if they are stretching. While rod bolts can fail in a catastrophic way, with the junk out there today I would trust used ones more than new ones. If you buy new aftermarket then you will have to resize the bolt holes an you may induce stress cracking into the rods. Use new nuts on the old bolts. Bring them up 1/3 the torque each nut at a time until you get to full torque. If one stretches you will feel it.



And don't forget to peen/stake the bolt so it does not come loose. Destroyed an engine that way once! Rod came out of the case, found the damn nut right there, too. DOH!
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

Thanks so much. Will do!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

T4 models do not peen
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

Anyone know a source for rod nuts and studs or at least nuts? I have not been able to find them. Is there a substitute? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
Anyone know a source for rod nuts and studs or at least nuts? I have not been able to find them. Is there a substitute? Thanks.


I have a T1 engine, so apples and oranges, but - check on the samba classifieds. I picked up a set of 8 NOS rod nuts from a seller here. From what I've seen, typically the guys who would need to replace their bolts are going for high HP and high revs.. I think most of the time you see guys buying new performance rods before they'd use old VW rods with new bolts.

I bought my rods from Jose at DPR.. It was worth the money. One of the classic or chronic problems T1 and T4 engines suffer from is rod bearing failure, it's what killed the engine in my bus before I bought old Twinkie from the PO. Keep that in mind, because the bushed end of the rod isn't the main concern. Yes you can get some issues from a sloppy wrist pin fit, but you'll have much, MUCH worse issues from a worn big end.
Freaking Jose did such a pro job on my rods I couldn't even see the parting line or catch a nail on it. Clearance was tighter than my tools could reliably measure.

Bottom line is you don't want to take a chance on a spun rod bearing.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

I just get such things from my local automotive machine shop. I suspect that most any decent FLAPS could order them for you and you could also get them from places like Summit Racing. Have you checked the Type 4 Store?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

912/E and 914-4 use 056-105-427-M100

the regular VW fiche does not distinguish between the T1 and T4, and uses 113-105-427 The T4 engines I have had apart all used the Porsche nut so there may have been a footnote in the original fiches that does not show in what is available online today.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

Just an fyi. Webcam solid lifters are taller than stock. Also checked both with a pushrod. Webcam lifter and pushrod combo is longer than when combined with stock. This is why shimming the rocker shafts improved valve train geometry, which was the reason for this thread in the first place.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

webcam does not build their own lifters. The ones I got from them with a new cam had perfect geometry and required no shimming.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

Thanks. That's good to know. I would imagine the lifter difference wouldn't effect valve geometry significantly then. Most likely has to do with the mish mash of old and worked over parts that made up my engine when it came to me from GEX in 1996. Since there is very little of that engine I will be using in my current build, setting up valve geometry will involve completely different variables.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

So I am finally reassembling my engine. I am at the point of tinkering with deck height. With my current selection of parts, I an getting a CR of 7:1. I could get some thinner shims and maybe get to more like 7.7. I know I have to respect having a minimum deck height of.040. Since I am weak on engine theory, I was wondering if there was a significant difference between the two CR figures. Thanks for the help.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
So I am finally reassembling my engine. I am at the point of tinkering with deck height. With my current selection of parts, I an getting a CR of 7:1. I could get some thinner shims and maybe get to more like 7.7. I know I have to respect having a minimum deck height of.040. Since I am weak on engine theory, I was wondering if there was a significant difference between the two CR figures. Thanks for the help.


vw chose 7.3:1 on late engines. The higher the CR to a point gives more power but raises heat. Higher CR also make for premium gasoline must be burned. You have to calculate the dish area into the calculations too - and the cylinders must be bolted down to get accurate measurements. Measure the deck height at the wrist pins.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

^I'm under the impression that premium gas should be used on all ACVW engines both T1 and T4.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Very tight valve clearance on rebuilt engine Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
^I'm under the impression that premium gas should be used on all ACVW engines both T1 and T4.


why? if you have a low compression engine, it doesn't do anything productive...high octane takes longer to burn.

low octane in a hi comp engine burns too fast = pinging

that is the abbreviated version of octane. in reality you need to burn the octane your engine was built for to yield the most power/economy
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