Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?

Danwvw

The time has come to build a stock or rather a "Stock Looking" Dual Port Engine for the 1971 VW Bus.
I am looking for input on what I can do to help it's performance, Cam, Crank etc... all the while keeping it stock looking and using a stock solex Pict 34/3 carb and stock heaters and stock exhaust.

Here is a photo of a early AE Bus case I found for the project, I have sent it and a good used VW 69mm stock crank and rods off to the machine shop for align-bore machining, inserting and a full flow oil modification.:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

LivinInnaVWBus · Samba Member Joined: October 07, 2013 Posts: 968

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject:

Yes, It's the Bus case, But I don't think the machine work will allow for the case to be opened. My machinist always installs the 14X2X10mm inserts and I don't think the case can be opened with them. I should check with him. But yeah, an 1835cc would be pretty nice.
Spent a lot money building the engine that is in the bus now and the spare engine as strokers so was thinking of just going stock on this one to save a few pennies. Also want it to be a good match for keeping the bus looking stock, generator and all and driving and sounding as stock as possible.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

aeromech · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject:

I am looking for input on what I can do to help it's performance, Cam, Crank etc... all the while keeping it stock looking and using a stock solex Pict 34/3 carb and stock heaters and stock exhaust

I ran my bus with an 1835 w/stock solex carb for a while. Looking back, I think it was running too lean because I never re-jetted. Lots of people like the 1776. Not sure how a stock exhaust would work on the larger engines though.
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GTV · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject:

I'm very interested to hear opinions on this. It's a question I've often thought of. Posting it in the Performance section would be a good idea also.

I've often thought a 85.5x74 would suit this application well. 5.325" rods, cheater cam, ported heads, and 8-8.5:1 compression. Maybe a bored venturi? The rest stock, but balanced and blueprinted.
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Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject:

The 74mm stroke is a really nice engine and I have 2 of these already! They are amazing with the DRLA 36 carbs, Will push a bus well over reasonable speed for it.
So Yes the 74mm crank is still sometihing I could do and still keep the stock carb and exhaust, It would be fun to see how different it would drive compaired to the 1800cc in it now!. I can't try that though with the spare engine as I put too much cam in it.
Thinking of going with an engle W-100 camshaft (.420" X 276') for this stock build. Maybe 8.25:1 CR
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

HereToGo · Samba Member Joined: April 17, 2001 Posts: 135

After recently completing a 1400+ road trip with a 1904/34 Solex, I would say just get dual carbs from the outset. That little carb just chokes down all your hard work and it needs to breathe. Runs out of steam real quick, like at 3500rpm.

If you're just puttering around town, it'll do fine, but out on the highway it gets old and people today have no patience for a solex-equipped bus.

Dual singles at a minimum, but save yourself the grief, it's a bear taking that single manifold off once it's on there. Two cents and all that.

OLD VW NUT · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject:

Read this:

http://www.aircooled.net/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

There is a limit to how well the Pict 34 will perform having to feed more cc's. VW has already stated that - 1600 (1584 in reality). I've read about a few guys who have opened the venturi up a bit - it screws with flow big time and was probably not worth the effort. My point is you can add cc's to your motor but using the stock pict 34 it may not be a happy marriage. A pair of ICT carbs would give an 1800cc motor a boost and IMO look stock for some years of bus.
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SGKent · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject:

If you want stock put in the inserts, make sure they are sealed so they don't leak. Have the rear of the case welded with plates to help avoid cracking, which they did even as a 1600. Use 85.5 and the 34 Pict 3. Use stock heat exchanger and oil cooler, pre heat etc. Use a very mild camshaft. Ask the machinist to swirl polish the backs of the intake valves, clean up the heads a little but not too much. Use the 002 stock gearing. Balance the engine. Make sure the rods are properly resized both ends. You'll get 60,000 to 80,000 miles out of it (more if you are gentle - I pushed my bus all the time when on the freeway). Clutch might wear out along the way, check the end play when it does as that may need tweaking. Use the stock doghouse arrangement and a thermostat.
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Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject:

So "SGKent" sounds like good advice and it's where I am going as I already have done the Dual Carbs and yes they are nice on the road, but my dual carbs tend to make the bus a little tough to drive due to not staying tuned just off idle during take off. Probably due to too much cam.
But yeah, defineatly going with the stock carb on this engine mostly because I want to be able to keep my bus having the option of stock look sound and value etc…
It sounds like what your saying above "HereToGo" is that larger displacement even just 90.5's combined with the Solex Pict 34 limits the RPM to around 3500 though. Thats probably less than 65 MPH. That's still not too bad. What does everyone think of the 88mm bore by 69mm stroke? I think that's the 1679cc everyone is building for stock engines these days.
Is a 88mm bore too much bore for the Pict 34 Solex carb?

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

rosevillain · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject:

With stock heads, I would consider 1.25 rockers on the intake of whatever 'straight' cam, or use a split duration cam. Stock heads flow good on the exhaust, but with a stock carb you could use some help on the intake. I think that 88 thickwalls would be great in a bus. Thick for cooling, a little bigger so that you can unshroud the valves a bit. Specerfvee(?) has spoken many times about removing the venturi from a 34-3 and running without it, mods are necessary, however.

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject:

Years ago I had a different 1971 bus, Stock Solex Pict 34, with stock exhaust and full flow oiling with the Gene Burg pressure releif oil cover, remote filter and all with the 85.5 cylinders and cam a W-110 or Scat or something. Did not run to well (72 MPH) so had VW friend bore out the Venturi and that helped it at High RPM but made it stumble on take-off.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

SGKent · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject:

Dan, you are trying to live in two worlds. Dual carbs run fine when tuned and they stay tuned for a long time. Either build it for performance or build it for longevity. Don't mix the worlds. I did not say racing when I said performance.

People mess up their plans really quickly all the time. They start to paint the kitchen to freshen it, then they decide to add a new sink while they are at it which leads to a decision that the countertops are dated, add cabinets, then the floors need upgrading. Then the couch doesn't fit anymore or look right which requires a new TV so get the 70" which the plugs won't work with the old sound system and we need new speakers too so let's take out a second mortgage on our house. And, while we are at it let's go ahead and buy the new spa and do that landscaping in the back yard. 3 years later and $650 a month in payments higher than when they bought the home they are forced to sell the house to start all over but the drive to work is 35 minutes more each way which leads to a divorce and child support. I spent 25 years managing consumer home loans. Occasionally someone will listen and think about what is really bothering them than just going in whole hog. I suggest you sit back and ask yourself why you are doing this. If it is because tuning dual carbs is a pain, it isn't really as long as the linkage is stable.

It is a VW bus, nothing more.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject:

Just talking, It's going to be pretty Stock really! So "SGKent" What's your vote for Pistons and cylinders? But my reason for doing this other than I like playing around with engines is to keep the bus having an Original matching engine option. And yes dependability!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

rosevillain · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject:

I would agree with SGKent. Define your issue, develop a plan to compensate for it, and don't deviate from it. Way too easy to detour, especially while getting answers from too many people with too many opinions/ experiences. I ended up replacing the giant window in the front room of my house because we wanted to paint the master bedroom.
Will you weld the stock air cleaner base back in?

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject:

As far as the stock air cleaner base goes, I saved it and want to make just a little modification so it can be bolted back in.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

SGKent · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject:

obieoberstar · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject:

After driving a type 4 bus for years, I found driving my 71 bus with a stock 1600 was totally different. Almost preferred the 1600 around town, but it did really well on some road trips.

A nicely built stock 1600, maybe with a very mild cam, would be ideal and give you miles of service.

Nothing wrong with keeping it simple.

Danwvw · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I want to get back that off Idle torque! Makes them really nice to drive around. I wonder if the W-100 is too much cam?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

morymob · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:22 am Post subject:

With my 70, after i rebuild the eng (87's ialready had) i played with it. Found with latest single port heads u get a bettrr low end, not much diff on top with stock carb with either dp or single heads, finally ended with sp & 2bbl carb as i did a lot of hwy trips, carbs will be biggest top end boost, as usual no warranty offered at this time.


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