Building a Stock ish Type 1 engine for the 1971 VW Bus?

[Danwvw]

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

And Tonight it looks like this:

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

1679cc First Start Video
Cam Run completed Video.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[SGKent]

that engine sounds on the video like it has some kind of knock in it. It is a weird sound like someone has a metal bicycle card bouncing on some part in a regular sequence with the RPM. You might be able to feel if it is there by putting a hand on top of the shroud. It is like a fan out of balance, a main bearing thud. I can't put my finger on it. Sounds tight but it is there in the background - at least to my ear.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Danwvw]

It's those cheap lifters! I really miss the CB-Performance Ultra lite's. But they-re too dam expensive!
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

It would probably help if I used a feeler gauge next time I adjust the valves too.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[SGKent]

It is not lifters I am hearing in the background. I can hear the lifters but it was not the tick tick but so dull sound matching the RPM. Like a loose fan or the belt is singing a low frequency thawp as it walks.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Danwvw]

Ah, I don't have a generator tie down strap! So I checked that and installed a big hose clamp, No change in the sound. Also Adjusted the Valves which helped the tappet noise a little. It could be just the #2 exhaust leak which I have just sealed with High Temp Silicone and will give it a listen again tomorrow.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Additional Info. on the engine during the Cam Run completed Video cam break-in run.

Oil Pressure 37 PSI
Oil Temperature 194' F
#1#2 Head near valve cover 244' F
#3#4 Head near valve cover 234' F
Muffler 488' F
Generator 129' F
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

So I did another Video here after repairing the exhaust leak with Silicone and adding a baffle so the engine sounds are easier to hear. There is a little more tappet sound coming from the 3,4 side.
As far as the sounds you were hearing I think they are exhaust sounds. Sounds fine to me.
Engine Sounds.

Text for the video:
I wanted to make another video here now that I have fixed the #2 exhaust port (correction "LEAK Near #2 Exhaust Port") down here it was leaking n we just used some silicone on that and sealed that. Those are old donuts on there.
So now what were wanting to do is hear how this sounds, I've put a baffle on it so we can hear the engine. A give it a start. Little bit cold! At least now we can hear it. Boy this oil pressure! It's Cold. Not too bad. Had it running earlier. It has cooled down. Ok. This is about how we were revving it the other night.
Sometimes you can kind of hear noises on video just moving the camera around on the engine, Can definitely hear something on the 3,4 side in the tappets a little pop a little more noise there than on 1 and 2. I adjusted the valves yesterday. They were pretty close though.
What do you think?

By the way I found a source for the cylinder head tins:

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Build Sheet for the 1679cc engine.
1679cc Type 1 Engine Build Sheet: Special thanks to everyone here on the Samba that participated.
Machine Work: Local shops,
Misc: Parts and service: Bug Germinators, North Bend OR.
Engine Case: 1971 VW Bus AE 034 XXX 60 SAE HP, Dual Port Serial Number, AS-41 Magnesium, Inserted for 8mm studs and deep #3, Full Flow oil return and block off, Stock 1600 Cylinder Openings.
88mm Bore, 69mm Stroke,
Stock Solex PICT 34/3 Carburetor,
Cam W-100 with 276' 236' at .050" and .420" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers,
Heads New L3 DRD Racing Heads, 3 angle valve job, stock sized VW 35.5mm X 32mm SS valves and single high rev valve springs,
Scat Solid Rocker shaft and swivel adjusters from PowerHaus, 1.1:1 Ratio stock VW rockers,
Stock Push Rods,
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance 1565 Large ID Racing,
Lifters cb-performance Stock Lifters,
CR Compression Ratio 8.0:1
Rods Stock from the old engine resized,
Crankshaft: 69mm Counterweighted 4140 Forged Chromoly from CB-Performance,
Piston and Cylinders 88mm AA ThickWall from Aircooled.Net
Flywheel Stock VW Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels,
Pressure Plate: Not on the engine yet,
Throw Bearing: Not chosen yet,
Clutch Disc: Not chosen yet,
Aftermarket Aluminum degree pulley with Black lettering,
Balancing: Everything: Rods, Pistons with wrist pins, Crank and Flywheel Balanced Separately due to changing the flywheel after the engine was together,
Stock Bocar Fuel Pump,
Oil Pump 26mm aftermarket with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter,
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
German Bosch Distributor 205AN DVDA with points, Mechanical Advance and Vacuum, Timing is set at 7.5'
Bosch 4 ohm Coil,
Bosch Spark Wires,
Spark Plugs are Bosch Super Plus W7-DC0 14mm X 3/4",
Generator, Original 1971 VW Bus Bosch Generator,
Intake Manifolds Stock,
Muffler Stock, Herst. Leistritz
Heater boxes, Stock,
Thermostat and Flaps installed.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

Ok here is a question for the Advanced VW Knowledge Guru's. What did I just Buy?
The dowel pattern is 8 dowel but it does not fit the CB-Performance 8 Dowel Crank. It's 200mm and has the grove for the "O" ring and it has a pressed on Ring Gear with 108 Teeth. Is this a flywheel that fit's a 40 horse? I thought they were 180mm.

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Bulli Klinik]

Maybe a 12 Volt flywheel with a 6 Volt ring-gear installed. I had Rimco make me one of these for VW-356 conversion motor. There are more than one patterns for 8-dowels with the SPG crank pattern being the most popular. That is likely what your CB crank is.

What issues brought you back to the flywheel? I thought that this thing was a runner?

Let me offer you this advice and hopefully others will learn from it as well: If you are 8-doweling a flywheel, it should be drilled and reamed TOGETHER as a unit. Ream and clean until the the flywheel has a little less than an interference fit. When you pay for balancing of a motor, the parts should be individually balanced, then assembled and balanced as a unit. This includes the pressure plate and the pulley. You've essentially flushed money down the toilet by having this only done part way. The factory specified 5 grams out of balance MAX. A good, good race balance should be 1 gram or less. The quarter you used to CC your heads weighs over 5 grams, to give you some perspective. Don't forget to have the rods balanced end to end and the pistons matched as well. Just doing a part of this is not doing anything at all.

Additionally, pressure plates these days are notoriously out of balance. I built a motor recently where my machinist had to weld on sections of steel stock to get the damn thing to balance. This is in addition to holes already drilled opposite the welding. If he would have drilled for balance, the pressure plate would have been compromised. These modern pressure plates don't fit as well as the old ones either. Prior to sending my parts to the machine shop, I like to center the clutch, bolt it down and peen the outer ears where they meet the lip of the flywheel. This ensures the clutch won't shift on the flywheel. The fit has been so poor lately with replacement pressure plates that I now have them centered, drilled and pinned to the flywheel. I'm not a engineer, but you can imagine a 10lb pressure plate shifted by a millimeter is going to make a HUGE difference in balance.

You have a lot of nice parts in the engine you're building and I can tell that you have the best of intentions. A little extra detail would make the combination of parts you have run for a long time.

Much good work is lost for lack of a little more...
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[Alan Brase]

[Danwvw]

So 356 or Type 2 1500 in 1963. Great Info!
Good to know it's good for somebody, Let me know if you need one.

Yeah, After getting the engine finished I went back and removed the flywheel with it's shim and wanted to replace the whole flywheel. I will try to get the right one this time.

"Bulli Klinik" The goal with this engine was to have it an the original engine for the bus available to put into it but not installed. Unfortunately things got a little out of order on balancing what with the run-out problem. The flywheels are going back to the machine shop next tuesday. I am hoping the next flywheel will be a better fit.
No pressure plate yet. But I am aware of the centering and balancing problems with them. There needs to be a way to add balance weights to an engine after it's together!

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Alan Brase]

I don't think it is a 356 or 912 flywheel of any flavor. I think they used smaller dowels 6mm vs. 8mm? and I think a smaller pattern? 356's were an evolution of a 36 hp. Everything is dinkier. The 40 hp came out in 1959 (?) and it was a revolutionary engine, shared nothing with the old engine. Kinda like the type 4 a decade later.
Porsche knew they were near the end of the road for getting more out of the 616 engine at about the time the Super 90 came out in what, 1960? The development photos from 1962 show a 4 cylinder 901 engine along with the 6 cylinder, but it was never brought to production till done in about 2015 by outlaw developers. All 901 and later engines were held on by bolts 5 or 6 or 8?
More than you needed to know, I guess, but: NOT A PORSCHE.
Al

[Danwvw]

Right! I did not think it was a 356 fly, But it's the flywheel you would want to put a Type 1 1600 VW Engine in a 6 volt 356 Porsch.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Bulli Klinik]

Exactly. 12V VW flywheel, cut off ring gear and install 6V ring gear. 200mm with 6V gear.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[Danwvw]

Distributor Gear Position was different due to the #1 Main Bearing being cut for the .040" thrust case from a .080" thrust bearing "I am currently scrutinizing this statement this may not be the reason. I changed the distributor drive shaft, the flywheel and a flywheel shim and now it looks about right but still need to check it's position with a 009 Distributor. This Edit on May 23,2016".

This is the Dual Carb engine I built last year:

Stock ish engine:

Dual Carb engine I built last year with the same Bosch 009 distributor:

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Tcash]