Getting a 64 back on the road.

Sharp64 · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:07 am Post subject:

Unfortunately that green isn't the original color. Original color looks to be more turquoise/blue green. Based on the year I think it was L380. But the green re spray was pretty thorough. It's under the front and rear lids and the dash is very nicely done. Most of the trunk is painted decent as well though they did stop near the wiring. I really don't want to do a total strip down. But I really like the idea of cream/white with brown interior.

Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:44 am Post subject:

Continuing issues. Died today after trying to take it out. Seems like it is overheating? I once had an old firebird that would start up, run for 10 minutes and then die. Turned out to be the points. Could this be the case again?

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:31 am Post subject:

Until you diagnose the problem it could be anything. Need to know when it dies next if there is fuel in the carb and spark at the plugs.
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kokanee · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:41 am Post subject:

I just watched the video your idle screw is out way to far you should check for vacuum leaks with it turned out that far the idle should be higher then it is

Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:02 am Post subject:

wcfvw69 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:16 am Post subject:

kokanee · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:17 am Post subject:

It could be points condencer or coil but if its getting hot it may be running lean or advanced to far

Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject:

I should clarify that by "hot" I mean after running for 5-10 minutes. I went to the auto parts store and going to restart it and check for vacuum leaks. I'm then going to get it to stall and check for spark at the plug and to see if there is fuel in the line and/or carb.

To try and get a better idea of the temperature of the engine I put a meat thermometer in the hole where the dipstick goes. After idling for several minutes, driving around the neighborhood a few times it's still only registering 180 or so on the therm. I also can't seem to get it to stall. Ugh. I did spray starting fluid around the manifold connections and nothing. I sprayed the throttle arm that goes through the carb and it's definitely sucking air as it almost stalled.

Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject:

Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject:

Ok.... So I got it to finally stall twice, both times it stalled it was at almost exactly 200* on the thermometer. I was armed with my handy dandy screwdriver and I immediately pulled the fuel line off. . When I pulled the fuel line off, there was barely any that came out of the line. I put it to the side and took the top of the carb off. There was little to any fuel in the bowl. Does this indicate the fuel pump flange needing to be sanded more because its possibly sticking? I also realized I never measured the distance the pump rod was coming up past the flange. I know when I put it in, it seems to be a good 1/4 of an inch or so above but never actually turned the motor over to see how far down it went.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject:

Do measure the rod height.

Then the problem most likely (unless you have two problems at once, which is doubtful) is fuel related.

Work your way from carb toward the tank. Clean out the fuel line between pump and carb and the float shut off valve.
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Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject:

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject:

New or cleaned out last week does not mean that something could have come loose out of the fuel pump or even when you installed the new flex fuel line, you tore off some rubber and that is plugging off the float valve.

Yes, with thinner gasket between the float valve and top of carb the valve will be slightly higher causing perhaps more fuel to leak into the float chamber. Found that problem in hot weather, adding a second gasket pushed valve and float down which in turn makes more pressure up on the valve keeping it closed against any build up in fuel pressure between fuel pump and carb from the hot air in the compartment when parked.
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Sharp64 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject:

I will check it, but I would think this would be a constant issue not a temperature related one. I should add that I also did pull the fuel line off the pump and when it was warm there wasn't really anything coming out. At one point I pulled the top of the fuel pump off there was fuel in it. But not coming out. Someone had mentioned taking the fuel pump and soaking the whole thing in carb cleaner. This didn't sound like a particularly good idea since there is a diaphragm in there right?

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:40 pm Post subject:

Well not much fuel is going to flow unless the engine was running at the time.

No, it is a bad idea to soak any carb or fuel pump without removing all the rubber parts first.
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Sharp64 · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:33 am Post subject:

Couldn't sleep last night so took a look at a couple of things. Fuel pump flange seems to be loose enough. Drops in and has some wiggle. Measured the rod and it sticks up about 5/16" above the flange at its lowest and just over a hair over 1/2" at its highest. Measured the distance inside the fuel pump and this seems about right to hit the lever inside. Disassembled the pump and it was pretty dirty. Soaked the top part in carb cleaner and brushed it clean. Blew through it and passages seem clean. Line between carb and pump is clear. Took the top off the carb and inspected the shutoff valve. Blew air through it and it seemed ok. One thing I did notice is that if you blew through it from what would be the top and pushed the pin up that shuts the valve it would sometimes stick. I tried blowing carb cleaner through it but still had a little stick. Tried turning it to see if I could loosen it up more and seemed better, but if i pressed it all the way up and tried to blow it out with just the force of my breath it would still stick. I kept the old valve and compared the two. It did not stick when trying this so I swapped the gasket and put it back in. I'm thinking perhaps when the engine warms up that the brass valve might be swelling and causing it to stick? Just a guess at this point as it was too late to be starting and running the car. Will try going through the rest of the lines again this morning.

*edit. Blew the rest of the lines out again, nothing coming out. Tested the fuel pump by putting the end of the fuel line to the carb and cranked the engine, plenty of fuel coming out. Tried cranking it this morning and with the old shut off valve the idling was VERY erratic and kept cutting out on me when I was coasting to a stop, so I switched back to the new one but used the old gasket that is slightly thicker. Pulled the carb completely apart again and blew out all the passages with a compressor. One thing I noticed was when the main jet carrier was screwed in with the new copper gasket neither of the holes in the side of the carrier lined up with the hole in the bottom of the bowl? You could barely see a third maybe of the hole? I assumed the area was over sized so that fuel could get it, but when I put the old gasket/washer back on and tightened it a little, one of the holes lines up perfectly so I left it that way. A little bit of gunk/crap blew out of the passageways, but didn't seem like much of anything. One other thing I noticed was that the little brass water spout looking fixture didn't seem to blow out. When I took the brass piece off and put air to it, I didn't hear/feel anything coming out of anywhere. I also noticed that the hole in the bottom of the bowl opposite the jet didn't seem to go anywhere either. Are these two related?

I also put the body seal in. At least the part that goes around the breast plate. I simply don't have the confidence right now to pull the engine to get the entire thing in. I also blocked off the preheat holes with duct tape because apparently the breast plate that I just bought that I thought would fit..doesn't. The fresh air holes don't line up properly so I'm at a loss as to what I am supposed to be using? Engine is a 66 1300 and the tin I bought I thought was a 66 as it has the single preheat hole on the left side. But it definitely doesn't line up. Ugh.

It did crank back up and after letting it idle for several minutes while I cleaned the tools up a bit, I then took it for a couple of runs through the neighborhood. Temperature based on the thermometer sitting in the dipstick hole never got above 180*. I ran the car for a solid 20 minutes or so and this was as hot as it ever got. I would imagine if the thermometer went deeper into the case it might have registered a bit warmer. I was able to easily put my hand on the manifold and carb without burning. The manifold was actually cool to the touch.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:41 am Post subject:

There have been lots of reports of the new float shut off valves sticking. So you might have something there. So far (knock on wood) have never needed to replace the OG ones in our carbs.

Main jet does not need to line up the that one hole because the chamber around that jet is bigger than the jet.

Rome · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:55 am Post subject:

You've come a long way with your patience, diligence and rationality to get the Beetle running. I hope your repairs have now resulted in a longer-running and reliable engine.

A few pages ago you mentioned getting more power out of the engine. A 1300 can easily be converted to a 1600 (if not already), but if your cylinder heads are still the original 1300, they will need to be machined to open up the cylinder diameter for the 1600 cylinders. Next time you check your valve adjustment, wipe off the vertical portion of the head that is between the square stands on which the rocker arms are mounted. You are looking for the head's part number. If it starts with "113" then you have a 1300 head. If it starts with "311" then it's a 1500 or 1600 SP head. Here's a shot from the Classifieds that shows the full P/N, starts with "113' therefore based on a 1300-

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Others have mentioned to know what you have, remove the engine, the fan shroud, then the cylinder tin on either half of the engine; remove the rockers and head and measure the inside diameter of the cylinder. If the ID is 77 or 78mm, you have the 1300 pistons/cyl. If the ID is 83 or 84mm you have 1500 cylinders; if 85.5 or 86mm you have a 1600cc. When you do this work, keep the pushrods sorted so that they go back into the same hole if you decide to just reassemble without changing anything for now. You'll also need 8 pushrod tube seals, and stretch the pushrod tubes themselves. But that work is covered in your "Idiot" manual. The nut tighteneing sequence when attaching a head is vital to follow correctly.

To go from 1300 heads (smaller valves than 1500 SP heads) to any larger displacement such as 1500, 1600 or even 1679cc you need to bore the cylinder openings in the heads so that the larger-diameter cylinders will fit inside.

The holes in the engine case where the bottoms of the cylinders fit into are the same size for the 1300, 1500 or 1600 cylinders. These holes are commonly known in the VW world as the cylinder spigots in the case. You can now also buy cylinders which have 88mm ID that also fit into the original engine case hole, to achieve 1679cc. The top end of those cylinders are thicker than the stock 1600's so that you have to bore the head to a larger diameter than for a 1600. But if you have a virgin/uncut 1300 head, the machining labor is the same if you go for the 1600 or if you go for the larger 1679cc cylinders. So keep that option in mind; going from a 1300 to 1679 is a 30% increase in displacement.

Once you get to that point where you want to actively pursue more power, best to post your inquiries (or search) in the Performance and Engine forum here. There are only a few new kits available for dual carbs on your SP heads; mostly the Weber 34ICT. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Dual-Weber-ICT-Carb-Kit-All-Engines-CB-p/cb-dual-ict.htm

Sharp64 · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject:

The heat riser cutouts don't match either on the "new" breastplate.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject:

Then you have 40 HP 1200 cc tin. Measure heat riser to heat riser hole on that tin and make sure next tin you buy has those holes about 1" (25 mm) wider.
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Getting a 64 back on the road.
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