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73sports Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004 Posts: 2107 Location: Warrington, PA
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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I think a big problem for people is that the racetrack itself is just a sea of blacktop. There is no grass or trees, or anything to bring a recreational feel. The aircooled show is just two very long parking lot rows, so if you bring a type 3, you get parked waaay away from your buddy that brought a bay window camper. We are paying top dollar to get into this show, and the show part of it doesn't have a lot to offer. Of course it costs even more to show a vehicle. _________________ I will never lie, but sometimes the truth changes.
Central Jersey VW Society |
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EMPIImp69 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2006 Posts: 3374 Location: Dirty Jersey
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Why not just make the Flanders show twice per year (spring and fall) and leave E-town RP for Watercooled and racing? E-town also has Waterfest anyway. _________________ 1963 Ragtop Bug |
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Karzapart55 Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 640 Location: Old Bridge NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Why not stop at the Chimney Rock mon 16. for the CJVWS meeting. Topic 1 will be E-Town |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2003 Posts: 133
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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For those of us who are not club members or can not make the meeting, I think that it is important we make our feelings/opinion known here.
I think abandoning the RWP shows and "leaving them for the water cooled and race crowd" is a horrible idea. Why would you want to try and KILL a VW event in your home state and drive the already shrinking hobby further into the ground? I do understand RWP should be more open to suggestions, possibly communicate more with the club and a host of other things... I also believe management will be taking a more active roll this year in ALL events/planning because possibly they have realized MORE THEN JUST THE VW SHOW has begun to slip. I do hope this trickles down to the VW show and it can improve. Jumping ship is not the answer.
For those of you who think I am just internet soap bocing....for the past 5+ years I have put $500 out of pocket to sponsor the races in spring and fall events and I do not own a business. I have not missed a VW event there in 10+ years and started an all VW Race series which tours the northeast and made Englishtown one of our race dates to help and add some alure back to the event. |
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Karzapart55 Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 640 Location: Old Bridge NJ
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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RP's silence on this matter is deafening |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2003 Posts: 133
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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How did the meeting go on Monday night? |
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Bucky Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2003 Posts: 421 Location: Middlesex, New Jersey
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Hey everyone. For those of you who don't know me, I'm with CJVWS and am one of many folks involved in the Englishtown Show and Go each year. I want to thank everyone for providing feedback, good or bad. While this most recent event was notably lighter in attendance, this is still a great show and worth working to improve. I believe that the cold weather and other major events scheduled within a week or two of this year's show were factors in the lower turnout, but were certainly not the only issues and a few of the comments here point to long standing items.
I would like to mention that prior to the Fall show, Raceway Park approached CJVWS and indicated a strong desire to do more to improve the quality of this event for all attendees. I feel this says a lot about the track's intentions and desire to provide a good show for you all and not just collect admission.
CJVWS is planning to meet with the track soon and present your and our concerns and propose ideas that we hope will ultimately make this a better show. The biggest action items we've identified are cost of admission, location of spectator parking, and overall appeal of the event. While I'm certain reducing admission won't be on the table, improving the overall experience by correcting the parking and providing attendees more to do and see is in our control and will make an immediate impact. I'll post more after we meet with Englishtown, but I just wanted you all to know that we are taking your concerns seriously and will do our best to have them addressed to the best of our ability.
This is a local event that I've been attending myself for over 15 years and don't want to see it go the way of Atco. For all you who enjoy taking an afternoon and sharing your hobby with friends, trolling the swap for deals, and checking out the show and racing - please continue to support the event as I'm confident it will get better.
Lastly, thank you Spotspeed for doing so much individually to help boost the racing attendance and putting your time and money into this for your love of the hobby. If there's anything at all CJVWS can do to try and help you on the racing front please PM me. I plan to run my 67 down the track this Spring after hearing how much fun it was from a couple newbie racers!
Thanks everyone! _________________ www.cjvws.com
'67 Beetle Sedan
'70 Westy
"Got a lot to carry? Get a box." |
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MMW Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2012 Posts: 846 Location: northern NJ
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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In my view all the "noise & chatter" about this show going on now is the best thing for it. As someone said earlier & I agree that there never seems to be much excitement or posting about it prior to the event. The more people talk about it the more people will be curious & want to at least try it once to see in person how good or bad it is.
My ideas
Just wondering - How many cars actually pay to display vs. how many pay the extra money to be eligible for a trophy? I think it should just be one fee.
As far as entry fees I think if you are showing a car the passenger should get a discount. Maybe $30 to show & $10 for one passenger.
I mentioned before. Maybe open it up to other German cars. Some shows have a non-VW class.
As far as dates it is very hard to spread out the shows. In this area, NY, NJ, Pa there are so many shows that almost every weekend you can go to one. If two shows are in a row it is usually hard to do both. _________________ Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle |
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79SuperVert Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Some car shows include a voucher good for a few bucks at any of the show food concessions. Might help soften the blow of the admission fee. _________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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noneed Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 922 Location: Roaming the Philly burbs
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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79SuperVert wrote: |
Some car shows include a voucher good for a few bucks at any of the show food concessions. Might help soften the blow of the admission fee. |
Especially when the burnt hockey puck they call a burger costs 7 bucks...
Look...
Moving the dates will NOT improve the show.
Giving a food voucher will NOT improve the show.
Starting a thread earlier and with more responses to said thread will NOT improve the show.
Like I said at the onset of this firestorm, and I meant every word of it, was for the track to actually give a shit enough to park the spectators in the lot NEXT to the show like they usually do instead of a 10 minute walk away.
ESPECIALLY WITH A $20 ADMISSION COST.
"Overhead" or the "costs of Raceway Park's property taxes" is not my problem, nor is it the problem of anyone else that attends this show.
Lest we forget this track stays in business 363 other days a year.
I'm reasonably sure the Show and Go doesn't make a damn bit of difference to their taxes and overhead either way.
Last time I checked...there's an ENTIRE STATE full of parking lots to host whatever the hell it was they were doing over there that day.
The bottom line is that this is the sort of thing that a track that puts PROFIT over anything else does.
Cram in more events / things going on that day rather then spread multiple things / events / activities out over multiple weekends = more $ at the end of that particular day.
Hell, I don't care if there's 50 things going on that day at the track...just park all of us VW people within a REASONABLE WALKING DISTANCE of each other.
As a disabled person myself, and not seeing ANY dedicated handicapped parking that day for anyone attending this event, I have every right to say this, regardless if I used or took advantage of any dedicated parking spots or not.
I'm not asking for special treatment here.
Just park all of us on the same damn side of the track ~
And while we're at it....
Comparing anything going on at Raceway park to AAG is like comparing a $2 Newark crack whore to a $2000 call girl in Vegas.
There's just no comparison...so you might as well drop that line of thought.
Seriously.
Not trying to start a pissing contest with you here Steven.
I know you're all about the drag racing side of things and that's great.
So much so, that you put your own $ and time into this side of the hobby... above and beyond any others I can think of.
Again, that's great...but you need to realize that 80 % of us attending this or any other VW show, are not drag racers...and VW show participants and attendees deserve better.
Just My $.02 _________________ Drive your VW... That's what it was made for.
Schwing wrote: |
Bondo is like make-up, it fools the eye from the ugly truth |
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GLHTurbo Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009 Posts: 1376 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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EMPIImp69 wrote: |
Why not just make the Flanders show twice per year (spring and fall) and leave E-town RP for Watercooled and racing? E-town also has Waterfest anyway. |
Check out the Dub's in the Shrubs show in April...the 1st one was this year and it was great, had a Flanders Spring Edition feel to it, was even at a German American club with a clubhouse, gazebos, and grass fields. I can only see it getting bigger and bigger. _________________ 1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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seansofthedead Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2010 Posts: 395 Location: bucks county
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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I'm with NoNeed on this one. RWP needs to have the parking on the same side as the show. As a vendor at the show cost me $50 to get in the gate with a helper, I would appreciate my customers being able to get to me with out walking a mile. This in the end cost me more since they don't want to purchess any thing large because they have to walk it to the next zip code where their car is parked. Is that really hard to ask for. Another question I have is why do we need to pay at a booth then drive 30ft to give our ticket to another person? Can we get rid of the second check point and get a lower entry fee. _________________ 63 vw RAT
69 trinity camper
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
12 year old horse and a short legged dog |
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noneed Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 922 Location: Roaming the Philly burbs
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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GLHTurbo wrote: |
Check out the Dub's in the Shrubs show in April...the 1st one was this year and it was great, had a Flanders Spring Edition feel to it, was even at a German American club with a clubhouse, gazebos, and grass fields. I can only see it getting bigger and bigger. |
Me too.
This is an AWESOME facility to hold a VW event and I can also only see this event getting bigger and better. What's more... ALL VW's are welcome and ( like the AAG ) you can even camp out the night before right there where the show / swap / general VW-GTG action happens
There's no drag racing obviously...but like I said earlier, most VW people that attend a VW show, are not drag-racers. It's a cool side to the VW scene, but let's face it...drag racing does not represent the majority of us.
seansofthedead wrote: |
why do we need to pay at a booth then drive 30ft to give our ticket to another person? Can we get rid of the second check point and get a lower entry fee. |
Seriously.
This is not only ridiculous...it's another WASTED ( and probably OVERTIME ) day's pay to someone that is OBVIOUSLY not needed. Especially since this "second line of defense" or whatever the track wants to call it is within walking distance, let alone eye-shot and ear-shot, from where a participating vendor or show car participant just got done handing over too much money already to get in to this fiasco...
How about we ditch this nonsense and make it $15 to get in ?
Eliminating this un-needed step ALONE would probably reduce the tracks "costs" quite a bit for the day of this show...maybe even enough to justify lowering the cost for all those in attendance ??? _________________ Drive your VW... That's what it was made for.
Schwing wrote: |
Bondo is like make-up, it fools the eye from the ugly truth |
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Karzapart55 Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 640 Location: Old Bridge NJ
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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And Raceway Park's response?.........Crickets |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2003 Posts: 133
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Look...
Moving the dates will NOT improve the show.
Giving a food voucher will NOT improve the show.
Starting a thread earlier and with more responses to said thread will NOT improve the show.
Like I said at the onset of this firestorm, and I meant every word of it, was for the track to actually give a shit enough to park the spectators in the lot NEXT to the show like they usually do instead of a 10 minute walk away.
ESPECIALLY WITH A $20 ADMISSION COST.
Moving the show will NOT improve it, but a week EARLIER could be better as October weather is a crap shoot. Food voucher will not lower costs but could it POSSIBLY help? Yes. If the track wanted to to TRY THIS...would you complain? Starting a thread and having people respond WOULD help.....it worked on the racers front this year.
The spectators usually park in the lot near the lake correct? This was the first time in how long that they parked across the track? The last time was when?
Hell, I don't care if there's 50 things going on that day at the track...just park all of us VW people within a REASONABLE WALKING DISTANCE of each other.
I agree with this 100%. It is not out of the question. It should be that way. You also talked about over head...unfortunately every event, every person through the gate, any time of year helps off set it, and make a profit. It is not our responsibility....we dont care about it...but we all keep the track going
As a disabled person myself, and not seeing ANY dedicated handicapped parking that day for anyone attending this event, I have every right to say this, regardless if I used or took advantage of any dedicated parking spots or not.
I'm not asking for special treatment here.
Just park all of us on the same damn side of the track
You are correct, on the opposite side of the track, there is no designted handi capped parking. If you told them at the front gate, they probably would have let you on to the pit side. As far as the NORMAL parking..in the lot next to the lake, there are handi capped spots next to the curb line, upfront and center
And while we're at it....
Comparing anything going on at Raceway park to AAG is like comparing a $2 Newark crack whore to a $2000 call girl in Vegas.
There's just no comparison...so you might as well drop that line of thought.
Seriously.
[/b]All I did was say AAG raised their prices also. Was this due to over head? The hosting venue charging more? Whatever it was...someone needed to cover their bills and guess who gets charged...a customer. Same BASIC principle as RWP. Now granted...the AAG gathering is FAR SUPERIOR.....A DIFFERENT WORLD then the RWP event but at the core, someone had to cover their ass and the spectator pays. I love the AAG, supported it the last few years and I support the Central Jersey Club whole heartedly. I know these are 2 different animals.
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2003 Posts: 133
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Did everyone happen to miss where Bucky said the track has approached the club about the event and they also have a meeting planned coming up???
That security after the gate is more so for people exiting the park to get a hand stamp. Yes, on the way in they do punch the ticket but it keeps people from trying to get back to the ticket booth when exiting and causing issues. They are there at EVERY event. Asking for them to be removed just for VW day is kind of ridiculous.
Did you guys know you can get into the VW event as a spectator for FREE?? Be a club volunteer. We spoke to one member this past event who has not paid in 11 years. Help the club...help the event...attend an event...all for free. Who wants to get on board with that?
Even if RWP and the Club can come up with ways to improve the show or work out the issues....will you attend? Will you show up or will you keep fueling the negative stigma attached to this show and just hope it dies and goes away? Will you tell your buddys "hey, lets go back and enjoy the day out"? Will you be part of the solution or someone who does not attend a home state show going into its 25th year? |
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Karzapart55 Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 640 Location: Old Bridge NJ
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Spotspeed, I was at that meeting. RP did NOT approach us about the show. No one there was happy with their attitude or lack of one. There will be another meet with RP We will see if anything gets done. I don't understand why you defend them so vigorously. They either don't care, or they screwed up. Either way They should explain themselves. This forum would be the place,and would go a long way to making sure the show continues. I can practically walk there. I don't want to see the show gone,but something has to be done |
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GLHTurbo Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009 Posts: 1376 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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If I recall they had the MotoX practice track running, the go kart track on the spectator parking lot running, motorcycle training class on the other half of the spectator parking lot, the VW Show and Go, some sort of "Spartan Race/Mud Run" type of thing in the beyond-the-pit side gravel parking lot (next to the lake), and they were running the 1/8th mile, which I never saw them run before. That left parking for the grass fields on the spectator side, Fall/Spring Swap Meet style.
The only way I can see this going back to "normal" is if the added Mud Run/Obstacle Course event isn't booked again, and no event on the 1/8th mile. Either events could have been from a rescheduled rain date perhaps? Hopefully that's the case, and next year it will be business as usual. Unfortunately the ACVW community isn't going to make any dent in their agenda. _________________ 1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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seansofthedead Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2010 Posts: 395 Location: bucks county
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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I have been going to show n go religiously for the past 10 years. The negative comments should be considered constructive criticism not hate. The problem is the ACVW guys don't use the track that much. 90% are there for the swap and show. There to hang with friends and catch up with each other. This show has barley anything to keep us interested. The show is usually geared to the water pumpers as of now. We need to get back to our roots. If it wasn't for the Aircooled community this show would of never exsisted and RWP would never be able to cash in on us. So they should show some respect for us as costomers. We are loyal customers treated right.
All Aircooled Gathering prices went up yes but look at the services they give us.
Club push
Camp out
Valve cover races
Kids activities
Goodie bags
And much more
RWP gives us
Parking
DJ that plays music a mile away( I don't mind because it's not my tast in music) _________________ 63 vw RAT
69 trinity camper
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
12 year old horse and a short legged dog |
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Bucky Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2003 Posts: 421 Location: Middlesex, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Englishtown NJ Fall Show and Go, October 18th, 2015 |
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Karzapart55 wrote: |
Spotspeed, I was at that meeting. RP did NOT approach us about the show. No one there was happy with their attitude or lack of one. There will be another meet with RP We will see if anything gets done. I don't understand why you defend them so vigorously. They either don't care, or they screwed up. Either way They should explain themselves. This forum would be the place,and would go a long way to making sure the show continues. I can practically walk there. I don't want to see the show gone,but something has to be done |
Jerry, if you'd like to amend this statement to say RWP didn't walk over and specifically talk to you about improving the show that's fine, but I personally spoke to RWP before the Fall show occurred and the track leadership specifically said they want to do more to improve the event and wanted our input. RWP does not monitor the air cooled enthusiast forums for feedback, so one of the responsibilities of CJVWS involvement in the show is for us to bring that feedback to them as partners in the event, which we will absolutely do. I think the parking issue, which aside from the admission prices, seems to be one of the most significant issues we've heard and is likely the most easy to fix. Thanks everyone for your feedback! I know many of you have been a part of this show for a long time and we hope to make improvements that will allow you continue to support the event and hobby.
Have a great Thanksgiving! _________________ www.cjvws.com
'67 Beetle Sedan
'70 Westy
"Got a lot to carry? Get a box." |
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