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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: headlights and blinkers |
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Ok so it's been a while since I've been on but I need some help again.
Problem 1 is the headlights. I have 1 low beam, my driver side, and my high beams, I have new bulbs, fuses, wiring looks good, so does ground. I tried replacing the headlight relay but when I replace it with a new one I get both low beams but cannot click to high beams, my swith for the blinkers/high beams is new so it can't be that I don't think. He relay in it I believe is he stock one.
Problem 2 is the blinkers. Going left or right they blink 2x normal speed and then after that start blinking fast and I don't know why.
Any help at all would be appreciated. If you want photos of anything just ask. |
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pgtips
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 860
Location: essex
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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same on mine today which I fixed.
high beam lights, I bought a new relay relay and no change, it turned out my new flasher/indicator switch was not making contact when I pulled the lever back (to flash/switch high/low) so now I knew it wasn't the relay I removed the switch and gently bent the contact at the switch end of the lever a little (as it was not making contact) and it now works. I've now got a spare flasher unit.
then my indicators, all sorts of fun which initially was bad contacts and fuses which needed cleaning up (also the springs behind the bulbs don't always spring forward = no contact so need a bit of attention), then a poor connection on one bulb was making it a bit intermittent (makes it flash fast when a bulb goes), then after fixing that it started making a weird buzz noise, so replaced the flasher unit, then my battery was too weak to make them work properly and they did nothing. Luckily I had a new battery to fit so that solved it.
Hope that helps, wires clean up is the most obvious and first thing, charge up battery and maybe a new flasher relay (they do go so don't be surprised)
PG
_________________
1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy - Subaru converted
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift
Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721 |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pgtips wrote: |
same on mine today which I fixed.
high beam lights, I bought a new relay relay and no change, it turned out my new flasher/indicator switch was not making contact when I pulled the lever back (to flash/switch high/low) so now I knew it wasn't the relay I removed the switch and gently bent the contact at the switch end of the lever a little (as it was not making contact) and it now works. I've now got a spare flasher unit.
then my indicators, all sorts of fun which initially was bad contacts and fuses which needed cleaning up (also the springs behind the bulbs don't always spring forward = no contact so need a bit of attention), then a poor connection on one bulb was making it a bit intermittent (makes it flash fast when a bulb goes), then after fixing that it started making a weird buzz noise, so replaced the flasher unit, then my battery was too weak to make them work properly and they did nothing. Luckily I had a new battery to fit so that solved it.
Hope that helps, wires clean up is the most obvious and first thing, charge up battery and maybe a new flasher relay (they do go so don't be surprised)
PG |
I'll take a look at my contacts and clean them. My fuses are all good so I'm gonna check the connections, but I have a new flasher so I don't think it's that. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: headlights and blinkers |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Problem 1 is the headlights. I have 1 low beam, my driver side, and my high beams, I have new bulbs, fuses, wiring looks good, so does ground. I tried replacing the headlight relay but when I replace it with a new one I get both low beams but cannot click to high beams, my swith for the blinkers/high beams is new so it can't be that I don't think. He relay in it I believe is he stock one. |
Very strange. The dimmer relay controls the output to either high or low beans but does not control left or right. The single relay output for low beams goes to fuses #3 & #4. Here the single input wire powers both fuses. Separate wires run to the left and right low beams. So as long as the relay powers one low beam it powers BOTH... unless the output from the fuses is incorrectly wired. The single yellow wire from the dimmer relay becomes two yellow wires after the fuse box (one yellow (L) and one yellow/black (R)).
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Problem 2 is the blinkers. Going left or right they blink 2x normal speed and then after that start blinking fast and I don't know why. |
Check your bulbs. The flasher relay is expecting the load of two (or four) 25W bulbs. If you run lower watt bulbs (eg LED bulbs), or a bulb is burnt out, the stock relay assumes the lower load means a bulbs has burnt out and starts to flash faster than normal to indicate a burnt out bulb.
Make sure you have the tail lights wired correctly. If you have the turn signal output connected to the parking lights the load will be too small.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: headlights and blinkers |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Problem 1 is the headlights. I have 1 low beam, my driver side, and my high beams, I have new bulbs, fuses, wiring looks good, so does ground. I tried replacing the headlight relay but when I replace it with a new one I get both low beams but cannot click to high beams, my swith for the blinkers/high beams is new so it can't be that I don't think. He relay in it I believe is he stock one. |
Very strange. The dimmer relay controls the output to either high or low beans but does not control left or right. The single relay output for low beams goes to fuses #3 & #4. Here the single input wire powers both fuses. Separate wires run to the left and right low beams. So as long as the relay powers one low beam it powers BOTH... unless the output from the fuses is incorrectly wired. The single yellow wire from the dimmer relay becomes two yellow wires after the fuse box (one yellow (L) and one yellow/black (R)).
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Problem 2 is the blinkers. Going left or right they blink 2x normal speed and then after that start blinking fast and I don't know why. |
Check your bulbs. The flasher relay is expecting the load of two (or four) 25W bulbs. If you run lower watt bulbs (eg LED bulbs), or a bulb is burnt out, the stock relay assumes the lower load means a bulbs has burnt out and starts to flash faster than normal to indicate a burnt out bulb.
Make sure you have the tail lights wired correctly. If you have the turn signal output connected to the parking lights the load will be too small. |
Well by the diagram I've found before it's 9 and 10 are the low beam fuses
Also I don't think my reverse lights, I have a random black wire that hangs out near my engine, someone told me it could be my reverse lights but wasn't sure how to check where the wire is supposed to lead to.
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: headlights and blinkers |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
Well by the diagram I've found before it's 9 and 10 are the low beam fuses
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That fuse box diagram is wrong!
One of the members created an updated diagram that is more accurate and even through in a reversed diagram you could keep in the trunk where the fuse numbers are reversed (12 to 1) since you are looking at the fuses from behind.
In case you don't believe that the fuses are numbered incorrectly... compare the fuse numbers with the '72 wiring diagram that you would use to re-wire the car from scratch:
Numbering fuses from the bottom to the top (1 to 12)...
Even if you numbered the fuses backwards the incorrect diagram has the brakes and horn on fuse #3... looking at the wiring diagram there is no orientation that places the brakes and horn on the 3rd fuse from the end. It is either fuse #2 or #11. So the VW fusebox diagram for '71/'72 is wrong.
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Also I don't think my reverse lights, I have a random black wire that hangs out near my engine, someone told me it could be my reverse lights but wasn't sure how to check where the wire is supposed to lead to. |
I found this pic of the Y-connector. The two wires run to the left/right reverse lights.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Last edited by ashman40 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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So the fuses was what prevented the other low beam from popping on, I wonder why this entire time it just wanted to work until recently said I give up. Either way it's working. Thank you so much ashman40
Now I still need to figure out this blinker/reverse light problem. Pretty sure if I can get the wire back on for the reverse lights it might just fix the problem but I'm most likely going to have to wait until Saturday when I have time and daylight to see everything. The springs on the back lights do touch fine so I don't think that's the issue. I'm going to try replacing the bulbs to test that too. If I do should I buy led? I know they're brighter but like you guys said they use less electricity so it might still causing to think the lights and going dead. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| I'm going to try replacing the bulbs to test that too. If I do should I buy led? I know they're brighter but like you guys said they use less electricity so it might still causing to think the lights and going dead. |
Reverse lights are not load sensing like the turn signals. If you want to replace the stock bulbs with LED ones, go right ahead. One problem with some LEDs are they are very directional. So they may not give as wide a beam of light as the stock bulbs, even if they are brighter.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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pgtips
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 860
Location: essex
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:26 am Post subject: Re: headlights and blinkers |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
That fuse box diagram is wrong!
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Kudos for fixing it guys but are you sure a higher rated fuse would stop the thing working, maybe it was the fuse or the holder needed looking at. But it works so good stuff.
Anyway in a friendly way I wanted to point out the comment about the fuse layout being wrong is incorrect.
Its right for 71 super beetle. I know because I have been on this for a few days with my 1302 71 SB and reverted to the owners handbook for the diagram as there are many variations out there.
The VW handbook should be reliable. 9 & 11 are red 16s (I am waiting for some new torpedo fuses so my #2 is red at the moment.
pg
_________________
1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy - Subaru converted
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift
Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721 |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:24 am Post subject: Re: headlights and blinkers |
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| pgtips wrote: |
Anyway in a friendly way I wanted to point out the comment about the fuse layout being wrong is incorrect.
Its right for 71 super beetle. I know because I have been on this for a few days with my 1302 71 SB and reverted to the owners handbook for the diagram as there are many variations out there.
The VW handbook should be reliable. 9 & 11 are red 16s (I am waiting for some new torpedo fuses so my #2 is red at the moment.
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You should send a scanned copy of your Owner's Manual to the site admin to post in the Manuals section. Here is the current '71 Beetle English owner's manual page from the tech section w/ fuse box for SB (12-fuse) and STD Beetles (10-fuse). It is also showing the wrong fuse layout.
So not all Owner's Manuals had the correct layout. I suggested using the wiring diagram as a "golden source" as it is what you would use for re-wiring the car.
I would comment on the Portuguese '71 Beetle manual too, but it only shows an 8-fuse box and pre-67 headlights! I wonder if that was left over parts?
One other way to know the fuse box diagram is wrong.... fuse #9 and & #10 are the Low Beam Headlight fuses... one is 16A and one is 8A... WTF? 
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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DeathTrap
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Sacramento/Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Bad grounds, poor connections.
He'll be back. |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| So I bought new lights and put them in and I'm still getting fast blinking. At least now I know it's not the bulbs. Where is the ground for the tail lights? All I know is the wires go from the light then lead towards the engine but behind the wall so I don't know where the ground is. |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:54 am Post subject: |
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So I was thinking about the wire that's destroyed and I realized if it was probably the fan then it had to run behind it, and I think the wire goes to the coil, I'm going to try tomorrow and seen if it works.
Also does anyone know what this is for? I don't think anything is hooked up to it so I don't know what it does
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26315
Location: Douglas, WY
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pgtips
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Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 860
Location: essex
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So I bought new lights and put them in and I'm still getting fast blinking. At least now I know it's not the bulbs. Where is the ground for the tail lights? All I know is the wires go from the light then lead towards the engine but behind the wall so I don't know where the ground is. |
What bulb did you buy/install? Make/model/watts?
What make/model flasher relay do you have installed?
Pull the side tar paper on the sides of the engine compartment and you should see the junction for the tail light wiring. There should also be a ground wire connected to the tray along the sides of the engine.
| OrangeMango wrote: |
So I was thinking about the wire that's destroyed and I realized if it was probably the fan then it had to run behind it, and I think the wire goes to the coil, I'm going to try tomorrow and seen if it works.
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Are you trying to say you think the fan chewed up the black reverse light wire?
That Y-junction in your pic looks like the point where the reverse light wire from the reverse light switch splits to go to the left/right taillight.
There should be two more wires.... one runs from that junction to the reverse light switch. The other running from the reverse light switch to the ignition coi #15 (+) terminal. There should be a fuse installed in-line on this wire.
As a test, (with the ignition ON) you could run a jumper wire from the ignition coil terminal to this Y-junction and see of the reverse lights turn ON. Be sure to use a fuse or test lamp in line to avoid overloading the wire.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So I bought new lights and put them in and I'm still getting fast blinking. At least now I know it's not the bulbs. Where is the ground for the tail lights? All I know is the wires go from the light then lead towards the engine but behind the wall so I don't know where the ground is. |
What bulb did you buy/install? Make/model/watts?
What make/model flasher relay do you have installed?
Pull the side tar paper on the sides of the engine compartment and you should see the junction for the tail light wiring. There should also be a ground wire connected to the tray along the sides of the engine.
| OrangeMango wrote: |
So I was thinking about the wire that's destroyed and I realized if it was probably the fan then it had to run behind it, and I think the wire goes to the coil, I'm going to try tomorrow and seen if it works.
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Are you trying to say you think the fan chewed up the black reverse light wire?
That Y-junction in your pic looks like the point where the reverse light wire from the reverse light switch splits to go to the left/right taillight.
There should be two more wires.... one runs from that junction to the reverse light switch. The other running from the reverse light switch to the ignition coi #15 (+) terminal. There should be a fuse installed in-line on this wire.
As a test, (with the ignition ON) you could run a jumper wire from the ignition coil terminal to this Y-junction and see of the reverse lights turn ON. Be sure to use a fuse or test lamp in line to avoid overloading the wire. |
Yes I did this with a jumper wire just before I came no here. Yes I meant the wire most likely was chewed up by the fan. Not for the fan. Yes my lights came on and worked. So there should be a fuse I the wire? How should it look if you have a picture, I'm going to have to repair the wire anyways. But this did not fix my blinker speed, I was hoping it would just because, but I was also thinking maybe the front lights blinkers too, I didn't check those ones, just the back. I will pull the tar off this weekend to check that in the daylight, I've been getting home with almost no light to work with. So the ground should be behind the tar, screwed down like the ground for the headlights in the trunk? I don't know about the flasher any more, I just bought if from O'Reillys new. I'll look into it and make sure it's the right one. I swear the stupidest things have been the answers to everything, like why didn't I think of that before! |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Yes I did this with a jumper wire just before I came no here. ... Yes my lights came on and worked. |
Great. So your reverse lights work. You just need to re-run the wires.
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So there should be a fuse I the wire? How should it look if you have a picture, I'm going to have to repair the wire anyways. |
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| But this did not fix my blinker speed, I was hoping it would just because, but I was also thinking maybe the front lights blinkers too, I didn't check those ones, just the back. |
Are you saying the front turn signals are NOT working? If only one turn signal bulb is working the flasher relay will flash faster than normal to let the driver know that a bub may be burnt out. If two or four bulbs are powered by the flasher relay it flashes at normal speed.
Maybe you don't actually have a problem?
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So the ground should be behind the tar, screwed down like the ground for the headlights in the trunk? |
It should not be screwed down. It is a male tab welded to the tray on the sides. The ground wire is pushed onto this tab. You can see the one stray ground wire coming from the tail light assembly in the above pic.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| Yes I did this with a jumper wire just before I came no here. ... Yes my lights came on and worked. |
Great. So your reverse lights work. You just need to re-run the wires.
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So there should be a fuse I the wire? How should it look if you have a picture, I'm going to have to repair the wire anyways. |
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| But this did not fix my blinker speed, I was hoping it would just because, but I was also thinking maybe the front lights blinkers too, I didn't check those ones, just the back. |
Are you saying the front turn signals are NOT working? If only one turn signal bulb is working the flasher relay will flash faster than normal to let the driver know that a bub may be burnt out. If two or four bulbs are powered by the flasher relay it flashes at normal speed.
Maybe you don't actually have a problem?
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| So the ground should be behind the tar, screwed down like the ground for the headlights in the trunk? |
It should not be screwed down. It is a male tab welded to the tray on the sides. The ground wire is pushed onto this tab. You can see the one stray ground wire coming from the tail light assembly in the above pic. |
I mean I replaced all the bulbs for the back and the head lights, only ones left are the front signal lights, so I might as well replace them and see if they might be causing the fast blinking. Thanks, I see the tab now that I look again. I'm going to try and check everything before tearing out the tar wall, I'd just rather not get into ripping that out if it's not necessary, the rest is gonna be a Saturday job anyways. Thank you for the photo, I will repair the wiring for that point Saturday as well. Your engine looks very nice and clean, nice work. |
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pgtips
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 860
Location: essex
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