| Author |
Message |
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
 |
|
| Waldi wrote: |
This bearing is the only one you can buy everywhere in a bearing shop. It costs less than 10€ here.
The original paper seal between the bearing shield and the low gear housing has 0,3mm. I use there the one from 2-WD which has only 0,1mm. There is a small part not covert by the paper, where i use fluid. This makes the bearing move less in the shield if you dont use a self made bearing retainer. |
Waldi, thank you for your input. I don't see that paper seal on my suppliers web site or in vw part breakdown of the output housing? Do you guys in the Fatherland get parts that are not available in the US?
On another note i have been looking for a german decoupler "kit". The only place i found one was a website called Busschmiede but they do not seem to want to sell to me, Im not sure why, but they don't seem to be setup for sales to the US. Are you familiar with them or do you know of another source for a german decoupler kit? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
I've only ever seen stripes like that on needle bearings that have gotten wet. No idea how that happened here, unless someone literally temporarily used a needle bearing in the nose of your low gear housing (without a race!) - which I cannot imagine. Yet there are the same stripes. No idea unless a closer look would reveal some machine marks indicating an attempt to "stake" the bearing for a tighter fit in a damaged bearing bore. Again, I cannot imagine that to be true, either. That's all I can come up with - interesting mystery.
DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ejimmi wrote: |
| Waldi wrote: |
This bearing is the only one you can buy everywhere in a bearing shop. It costs less than 10€ here.
The original paper seal between the bearing shield and the low gear housing has 0,3mm. I use there the one from 2-WD which has only 0,1mm. There is a small part not covert by the paper, where i use fluid. This makes the bearing move less in the shield if you dont use a self made bearing retainer. |
Waldi, thank you for your input. I don't see that paper seal on my suppliers web site or in vw part breakdown of the output housing? Do you guys in the Fatherland get parts that are not available in the US?
On another note i have been looking for a german decoupler "kit". The only place i found one was a website called Busschmiede but they do not seem to want to sell to me, Im not sure why, but they don't seem to be setup for sales to the US. Are you familiar with them or do you know of another source for a german decoupler kit? |
The gasket he's talking about is between the bearing carrier and the G housing. Bc it is a thick gasket, the G gear housing doesn't sit properly to retain the mainshaft ball bearing.
There is not gasket for the nose cone .
The ball bearing in the nose cone is not the only one you can find easily outside VW part suppliers, but Weddle has the best prices and quality around.
German websites suck, they have something against paypal an rarely want to deal with international orders, sometimes even just sales within Europe.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
Doug, heres a closeup. im wondering if it has something to do with the casting process? the small triangle marks on the bottom of the bore are odd as well maybe it is cast with a hex type bore then machined? the bore is smooth to the touch and im not really worried about it i just thought it was odd.
BTW are you IdahoDoug from the MUD?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The gasket he's talking about is between the bearing carrier and the G housing. Bc it is a thick gasket, the G gear housing doesn't sit properly to retain the mainshaft ball bearing. |
Ahh.. yes i understand. would this not also affect the size of the low gear shim? I ask, because as pointed out by "gears" in his trans thread vw/styer did not account for the gasket in reference to keeping the main bearing in place either, so i wonder if the thickness of the gasket should be subtracted from the shim for the low gear as well?
I actually have a worn synchro in the lo gear housing i am trying to figure out the cause of that, and it is related to this, will post tomorrow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ejimmi wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The gasket he's talking about is between the bearing carrier and the G housing. Bc it is a thick gasket, the G gear housing doesn't sit properly to retain the mainshaft ball bearing. |
Ahh.. yes i understand. would this not also affect the size of the low gear shim? I ask, because as pointed out by "gears" in his trans thread vw/styer did not account for the gasket in reference to keeping the main bearing in place either, so i wonder if the thickness of the gasket should be subtracted from the shim for the low gear as well?
I actually have a worn synchro in the lo gear housing i am trying to figure out the cause of that, and it is related to this, will post tomorrow. |
People who uses the Long enterprises bearing retainer uses gasket maker stuff, so you don't have to worry about it.
If you use the gasket, Weddle sells the correct original thickness, but I would still account for it, although any decent rebuild would not rely on the factory retaining design, proven to fail, partly due to that gasket leaving a gap the value of its thickness 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9619
Location: Western WA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
Agreed there has to be some movement but hard to imagine it could spin.
The way it was explained to me when "my" nose cone was rejected for core ($500) was:
The housing is heated to 180*F and the bearing drops in. On "my" rejected housing, the bearing just drops in at room temperature. You can clearly see burnishing from movement of the bearing but theres no pattern.
My driveline has always been perfectly silent.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
People who uses the Long enterprises bearing retainer uses gasket maker stuff, so you don't have to worry about it.
If you use the gasket, Weddle sells the correct original thickness, but I would still account for it, although any decent rebuild would not rely on the factory retaining design, proven to fail, partly due to that gasket leaving a gap the value of its thickness |
I Dunno about a long bearing retainer, you mean AA right? Ill be making my own retainer, similar to yours and Hermans using the bosses in the aluminum case. I guess i will have to do some math for the gaskets and shims in that area. I did a bit of measuring today per the Bentley method, and they were not repeatable so i need to get this figured out since one side of my R/G synchro is trashed and i dont know why... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
super magnified photo i don't think it spun, i don't think those marks are from anything to do with the bearing 27 marks 9 balls.
$500 core!  you know what those really cost right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
There is no difference in messure the shim for 4-wd or 2-wd. As long you have a clearance over between 0,3 and 0,6mm with the shim and without the gasket, you want have a problem. Well i wouldnt do 0,6mm + the 0,3mm gasket. The manual say 0,4mm, no matter what gasket you use.
The easiest retainer
Last edited by Waldi on Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The ball bearing in the nose cone is not the only one you can find easily outside VW part suppliers, but Weddle has the best prices and quality around.
German websites suck, they have something against paypal an rarely want to deal with international orders, sometimes even just sales within Europe. |
I am not telling you can buy the other bearings only from VW. There are a few dealers where it is possible to buy them. They spend alot of money to afterfabricate them. Same way as ring and pinions or gear wheels. But the one in the nose is a common bearing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
Rather than "calculating" for G gear shim thickness, merely do a trial install without the synchronizer assembly (in a bare low gear housing), and directly measure side clearance on R and G with a feeler gauge. I tend to set clearance on the high side for these gears (with thinner shims).
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com
Last edited by gears on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| Waldi wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The ball bearing in the nose cone is not the only one you can find easily outside VW part suppliers, but Weddle has the best prices and quality around.
German websites suck, they have something against paypal an rarely want to deal with international orders, sometimes even just sales within Europe. |
I am not telling you can buy the other bearings only from VW. There are a few dealers where it is possible to buy them. They spend alot of money to afterfabricate them. Same way as ring and pinions or gear wheels. But the one in the nose is a common bearing. |
I didn't say VW, I said "VW parts suppliers". Let's turn it a different english way: The ball bearing in the nose cone is not the only one you can buy "at a bearing shop".
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| ejimmi wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
People who uses the Long enterprises bearing retainer uses gasket maker stuff, so you don't have to worry about it.
If you use the gasket, Weddle sells the correct original thickness, but I would still account for it, although any decent rebuild would not rely on the factory retaining design, proven to fail, partly due to that gasket leaving a gap the value of its thickness |
I Dunno about a long bearing retainer, you mean AA right? Ill be making my own retainer, similar to yours and Hermans using the bosses in the aluminum case. I guess i will have to do some math for the gaskets and shims in that area. I did a bit of measuring today per the Bentley method, and they were not repeatable so i need to get this figured out since one side of my R/G synchro is trashed and i dont know why... |
Yes, the plate style. I thought it was an invention of Long, but you understood the type I was referring to 
Cheers!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| gears wrote: |
| Rather than "calculating" for G gear shim thickness, merely do a trial install without the synchronizer assembly (in a bare low gear housing), and directly measure side clearance on R and G with a feeler gauge. I tend to set clearance on the high side for these gears. |
This is brilliant!
To clarify when you say you tend to set clearance to the high side, do you mean that you step down to a thinner shim or up to a thicker?
Last edited by ejimmi on Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
| Waldi wrote: |
The easiest retainer
|
Thanks Waldi, That solution does look simple, but for some reason i always do things the hard way  I guess i am just a slow learner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
I did not want to believe i needed a new lower gear housing.
Based on the other components under the van i think the previous owner put in allot of hard miles in granny, so I figured if the bearing bores were bad, then the gears would show wear and the choice would be obvious. To my surprise they actually looked ok.
All hope was then lost when the needle bearing dropped out of the bore on its own so i guess i will have to get a new housing.
Earlier in the thread a samba member offered to sell me a gear housing, this morning that offer was retracted by the seller so..... if anyone knows where i can get a used lower gear housing please let me know.
In the pic you can see the 2 cracks @ 1&5 o'clock and the awesome job someone did re-machining the bore with a grinding burr. 
Last edited by ejimmi on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
|
|
I have some of them here.
Edit: it looks like somebdy was not able to take the needle bearing out, and was there with a drilling mashine. Edit: ah no, it was the part that was welded, and drilled after.
While i nearly never need to change the big needle bearing, i change on every gearbox the small one.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
