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Recommendations for Subaru EJ25 intake
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Recommendations for Subaru EJ25 intake Reply with quote

I'll start with a pic of my intake (disassembled somewhat). I don't like the way it runs (has a big hole in the powerband). Wondering if it's related to my intake.

Here's a pic of what I have. It is 2009 Smallcar install of 2007 iActive EJ25. Does anybody have this type of intake and does the EJ25 run well with it?

What intake would be better?

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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could spend more $ to bling out that intake but overall that looks like a nice baseline from days past.

What I have found is that equal length intake to exhaust ratios are what most prefer.

On another conversion, Bostig, it had a very long intake and very short exhaust.
It did help draw out the power through the curve, but with most wanting "more", the wiring has been updated to allow the AFM to be moved to the drivers side and create a very short intake that than gives better throttle response and the "feeling" of more power.

I say feeling because it isn't creating power, just allowing the engine to do what is does a little easier in my opinion.

Experiment a bit.
I think you will quickly discover what intake drone sounds like when you allow the system to breathe freely.

The snorkel found stock on the Vanagon is a great way to keep the drone to a minimum, but it also creates a much longer and more restrictive system.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: AFM tubes Reply with quote

AFM tubes are plastic or metal tubes that allow the AFM unit to be mounted inline and not use the stock AFM body.
These are great for conversions and will allow you to ditch the donor car's air box completely.
Most ricer and speed shops have these available.
They range from $9 black plastic to about $100 for polished stainless or aluminum.

When wanting the shortest, tightest and least restrictive, I use these.

The picture of the 2.5 on the current "debate" thread has one being used.
It is on the firewall and barely seen, if at all.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 2002 EJ25 and use the stock airbox stuffed into the drivers side space behind the taillights. I drove it this way for several years. This summer I finally attached the stock snorkel and routed it up per a stock install. I did not notice any power or noise difference by my butt dyno. Very Happy In my case I think the stock 2002 airbox dampened pretty much enough intake noise such that the snorkel made no difference. I attached the snorkel because I knew I was going to be driving in dusty conditions and didn't want to draw air into the airbox from the engine compartment. I wanted cleaner air from up high. YMMV.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the stock air box from the donor car, not much increase will be felt.

Loose that box, shorten the system and use a freer flowing filter and you will.

BUT than many will chime in about particles passing your filter and of course you will now have a drone.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
If you have the stock air box from the donor car, not much increase will be felt.

Loose that box, shorten the system and use a freer flowing filter and you will.

BUT than many will chime in about particles passing your filter and of course you will now have a drone.


Yep, fortunately the EJ25 has enough power that I don't mind not accessing all of its potential. Wink
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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flomulgator
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have any experience they can chime in with concerning the K&N Apollo system and noise levels? It's a great (but not cheap) way to pipe air through a low-restriction filter from colder, cleaner locations.

2nd question: what are the measuring points of the length of the intake system, when considering intake/exhaust ratios? I ask because a snorkel adds a lot of length, but before the filter.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use and prefer the Apollo.
I also do not offroad more than on and prefer pavement.
The normal anti K&N posts will follow this one.

My reply, spend the extra $45 and get the prefilter.
It will keep dust and water out Exclamation

The Donaldson is what you want if offroading is your thing.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Subaru EJ25 intake Reply with quote

Sodo, I don't know if you have driven some other 2.5 conversions, but if not I think you should. When you say there is a big hole in the powerband it doesn't compute. Could it be your expectations, or is there really an issue. In a normal 2.5 conversion I don't think anyone would describe it that way. You might hear that if they changed 3rd gear to something higher in which case, that is the problem. It is just hard to make sense of without something to compare it to.

Sodo wrote:
... I don't like the way it runs (has a big hole in the powerband). Wondering if it's related to my intake.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, i have NOT driven others & need more perspective. What would be better I think is to drive a proper EJ25 thats still in its Subaru Donor car.

I compare my EJ25 to the Tiico that came out, and am dismayed that I have to rev it harder to get more torque than the Tiico. It kinda feels like a car that has no accelerator pump (carburetor talk) where it accelerates good if you have a light touch on the throttle, but if you press the throttle just a little too far (for where the revs are) it falls off. I think it should struggle to pull harder.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What rpm are you at when you floor it and it does not respond?
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"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really appreciating the attention on this but I've barely driven my van (9,000 mi since 2011). I've been driving a new F150 that is soooooo different I've forgotten where the RPMs were. When I get the trans & cooler project done (a week or two?) I'll be able to describe it better.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sodo, I would not be surprised if what you are feeling is related to the drive by wire throttle. I don't know anything about them other than having read a few posts. I have heard of people having to either reprogram or make some adjustments to it. Not sure if that was on the 1.8T or the subie. Worth looking into. Your intake piping isn't going to have anything to do with it.

Read this and see if this sounds like what you are feeling.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/70486-wh...-throttle/

IMO, you really should find a shop to look at your van. You are in the land of Vanagons and subaru conversions, you should be able to find a great shop that can tell you after 5 minutes of driving it how your van compares to other conversions. I think you are tinkering too much by yourself without enough background. I could be wrong, but that is what it seems like.
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kalispell365
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HIGHLY doubt that intake is your problem. Check into the possibility of a reflash.
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dlb154
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dylan - can you comment on the sound difference of the typical open K&N filter vs the Apollo? I'm running a Vanaru kit on a 2003 2.5 and Hans provided the standard style open cone filter K&N.

I've had past conversions with the Kennedy enclosed filter box and a conversion using the stock Subaru air filter box. The open K&N filter does produce a less desirable sound in my opinion than the Kennedy and Subaru air boxes. I'd like to try the Apollo and pre-filter if that quiets the sound.
Thanks, Dave

insyncro wrote:
I use and prefer the Apollo.
I also do not offroad more than on and prefer pavement.
The normal anti K&N posts will follow this one.

My reply, spend the extra $45 and get the prefilter.
It will keep dust and water out Exclamation
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newfisher
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres mine. Combo suby, wrecking yard, aftermarket ebay elbow and an Apollo with 2 feet of hose up the D pillar. I had a cone style K&N at the end of the chrome elbow tucked out of the dust but had to clean it alot. The Apollow stays nice and dry, clean and less noise. I actually think it gave more performance with the inlet drawing forced cold air vs engine bay temp dusty air.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlb154 wrote:
Dylan - can you comment on the sound difference of the typical open K&N filter vs the Apollo? I'm running a Vanaru kit on a 2003 2.5 and Hans provided the standard style open cone filter K&N.

I've had past conversions with the Kennedy enclosed filter box and a conversion using the stock Subaru air filter box. The open K&N filter does produce a less desirable sound in my opinion than the Kennedy and Subaru air boxes. I'd like to try the Apollo and pre-filter if that quiets the sound.
Thanks, Dave

insyncro wrote:
I use and prefer the Apollo.
I also do not offroad more than on and prefer pavement.
The normal anti K&N posts will follow this one.

My reply, spend the extra $45 and get the prefilter.
It will keep dust and water out Exclamation


Not as quiet as the stock box, but the filter is inside a round case with the Apollo, so it is less than just a plain K& N stuffed into the rear pillar opening.

It is also that location, the rear pillar that creates some.of the drone heard inside the van.
This is why using the stock snorkle helps a bit.

Hope this helps.
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dlb154
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dylan. That helps but creates further questions...

I've read many times about the "drone" sound but not sure if that's what I'm experiencing with my open cone K&N next to the D-pillar rather than stuffed in the lower cavity.

Can anyone post a video of the Subaru converted Vanagon that is producing the "drone" sound?

I wonder if that tone is just a resonating vibration that could be lessened if a product like Dynamat or Fatmat were applied to the interior of the D-pillar.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry ni video. The system that I posted has no drone sound. Nor did the cone on the end just after the chrome elbow. Play around with the length of tube you have.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drive my Van on dusty roads, can't go the K&N route. If thats what I need to do to get it to move when I press the throttle I'll opt for cleaner air. Mine already drinks a little oil, I don't want to make it worse ingesting dust because I go where its dusty. Getting the (usually cleaner ! ) air from upper rear vents is probably much better than the engine compartment.

davevickery wrote:
Sodo, I would not be surprised if what you are feeling is related to the drive by wire throttle. I don't know anything about them other than having read a few posts. I have heard of people having to either reprogram or make some adjustments to it. Not sure if that was on the 1.8T or the subie. Worth looking into. Your intake piping isn't going to have anything to do with it. Read this and see if this sounds like what you are feeling.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/70486-wh...-throttle/

IMO, you really should find a shop to look at your van. You are in the land of Vanagons and subaru conversions, you should be able to find a great shop that can tell you after 5 minutes of driving it how your van compares to other conversions. I think you are tinkering too much by yourself without enough background. I could be wrong, but that is what it seems like.


This was a great post, very helpful. I had gleaned from threads in the past that the intake tract and airbox choice had an effect on the throttle response, but never heard the opinion that the Drive-By-Wire (which is a computer-controlled system) may be the cause.

When I get the van driving agin I will look into this further. Along with looking for an '07 Subaru Donor to drive too, these are everywhere in Seattle.

Kalispell the option of a re-flash sounds interesting. Is the throttle response on this Subaru programmable? WHO does this in Seattle? Or do I send my ECU off?
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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