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The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Thanks for this info. I have always suspected the pump since having problems starting, but didn't know why. Sometimes I can turn the switch on and off many times, and it will fire a few times and stop, and then have to do the same thing over many times to get started. Once started it runs great. Also I have noticed when I give up starting(didn't wnt to run the battery down), but came back in a few minutes and it started right off with just a touch of the starter switch. Bob
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Just so I can understand what your saying about pumps for type 4. The Type 4 pump has three outlets, suction, pressure, return. The other pumps I think your suggesting have only one outlet, so how do you adjust for that?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Just so I can understand what your saying about pumps for type 4. The Type 4 pump has three outlets, suction, pressure, return. The other pumps I think your suggesting have only one outlet, so how do you adjust for that?


The D-jet tbree lort pump has routing like thks:

Tank-----filter-----pump inlet "S" -----pump discharge "D"-------damper------fuel rail pressure side-----regulator-----return line-----"Y" fitting-----right side of Y fitting to "R" on pump-----left side to return nipple on tank.

The two port L-jet pump goes like this:

Tank------filter------inlet port on pump-----outlet port on pump------damper-----fuel rail pressure side-----regulator-----return line -------** here you have a choice**

A. connect to the Y fitting....left leg going to another Y fitting between pump and filter. On older L-jet pumps they primed and kept up with volume easier by using some of the return fuel along with fuel from the filter-----right leg to tank return nipple.

B. Return line to tank deleting the Y fittings.

Newer turbine type two port pumps have less priming issues than earlier pumps and have more stable fuel pressure. This is because they have better designed internal bypass circuits and outlet check valves.

The original D-jet thred port pump had better self priming characteristics than the eatlier two port pumps because of the internal relief valve. It keeps pressure head across the roller cells down low enough that suction is stronger. All the R port and Y fitting does is to allow the pump bypass fuel to return to tank.

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Great----think I got it. Correct me if I'm wrong. The existing Y in it's original installation on Djet is already connected to the nipple on the tank. So to install a 2 port pump, a new Y is installed between the pump and filter, and the two Y's are connected. Is this a basic explanation?

Next I need to study your comments on the various pumps and decide on a pump. I see even Parts Geek has a pump they say is for a 411, but I've been stung by them before on parts they say fits a 411. I also noticed on one post that the air cooled Vanagan pump works.
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

On Ebay there's a Hag Walbro pump for $49.95. Is this brand of pump OK?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

You need to shop for a pump by volume and pressure first. Then make sure its size fits and remember that not too many modern pumps have barbed fittings. You will probably need to install a new plug type at the end of the wire.

There are hundreds of part #s that will work with more or less work.

Give me a couple and I will give you a list of part #s

Yes...Walbro is a decent brand. Airtex is a good brand, Bosch and others. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Thanks----do me a favor, and check my post before this last one, and tell me if I'm right. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Thanks----do me a favor, and check my post before this last one, and tell me if I'm right. Bob


The ebay pump?.....you need to check the part,# carefully. Tbe price is a little low.....and normally tells me that its either a low pressure feeder pump, an electric carb pump or an in-tank pump.....none of which will work. Post a link so I can see what you are looking at and a part #. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK right now I can give you the ebay item number. 220568299565
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK right now I can give you the ebay item number. 220568299565
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Item has been removed. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Hmmm that's strange, because it's still on there. It looks the same as most of the two port pumps, and is for a 80-85 Vanagan. The mfg part number listed is lN122692. That same pump is listed for many, many other cars too. It's a Walbro pump. The cheap price makes me wonder if it's old. I sent a question asking the flo and pressure rates. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Tried to copy and paste a picture, but it didn't work. So here is how I get it on Ebay. I used web search "Fuel Pump for 81 Volkswagen Vanagan". Then scroll down until you find "Bosch Fuel Pump Volkswagen Vanagan 80 81 82 83 Ebay " ----- click on that and you can find the Walbro pump for $49.95.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Tried to copy and paste a picture, but it didn't work. So here is how I get it on Ebay. I used web search "Fuel Pump for 81 Volkswagen Vanagan". Then scroll down until you find "Bosch Fuel Pump Volkswagen Vanagan 80 81 82 83 Ebay " ----- click on that and you can find the Walbro pump for $49.95.


I found it. Sure...it should work if it works on a vanagon. All of these have roughly the same pressure and flow specs. I have no idea what kind of fittings it has.

The part number for the walbro on ebay does nothing on the Wabro site. I have no idea what that means.

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/volkswagen-vanagon-1980-1983-fuel-pump-4-cyl-2-0l.html

I got this from the walbro site. Scroll down and look at all the pumps it interchanges with


Try this thread. Its got a ton of crossover pumps.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640244&highlight=

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Just to make clear I understand your instructions concerning the "Y" fittings changing from three port to two port:

1. Install a Y fitting between the filter and pump with the Y facing the filter.

2. The existing Y has the left side connected to the tank. Change that to the right side of the Y. Connect the left side of the Y to the Y between the filter and pump.

Question: Does it really make a difference which side of the Y goes where?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Just to make clear I understand your instructions concerning the "Y" fittings changing from three port to two port:

1. Install a Y fitting between the filter and pump with the Y facing the filter.

2. The existing Y has the left side connected to the tank. Change that to the right side of the Y. Connect the left side of the Y to the Y between the filter and pump.

Question: Does it really make a difference which side of the Y goes where?


Yes...it does...for the exact same reason that the PURPOSELY and STUDIOUSLY use a "Y" instead of a "Tee". Return fuel entering the flowing main line at either a 90* (a Tee) angle creates turbulence that greatly slows down flow. (a Tee) or even worse a "Y"...which enters into the main line at a 45* or 6)* angle...flowing into the face of the incoming fuel...creates even worse turbulence.

At low static fuel pressure...meaning when the tank is not full....this can be the difference in a roller cell pump having issues priming or at times cavitating because its having troubles fighting the turbulence drawing fuel.

Fuel entering into the side of the intake line for the pump...needs to go with the flow....not hit it head on.

The later L-jet and digifant pumps...some of them....can have a few issues with suction which is why on some pumps...pump placement (how low it is placed with reference to the tank)...can have critical results on fuel pressure stability and pump life.

Sorry for the crude sketches....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is regular D-jet with a three-port pump. Note the direction of the "Y"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is using an L-jet pump or similar. Note the direction of the "Y's". The purpose is tyo take advantage of the volume and small velocity of the return fuel to help keep a lot of readily accessible fuel right in front of the pump inlet...so it does not have to work so hard at suction. Any excess will go straight to the return.
If your pump suction is strong enough....and a lot of the late model turbine pumps are strong enough...you may be able to do away with the "Y's" altogether making it straight out...tank----filter---pump----damper and straight back in ....return line---to tank.

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK thank you------ very interesting. I'll try for a turbine pump. I don't think the one I was looking at on ebay is a turben. But now with your help I can hook up either one. Thank you. Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
OK thank you------ very interesting. I'll try for a turbine pump. I don't think the one I was looking at on ebay is a turben. But now with your help I can hook up either one. Thank you. Bob


The airtex E2000 and the Bosch 69100 are both two-port turbine pumps listed in that thread.

Summit racing and others have the E2000 for about $65. Many people use those for D-jet with excellent results.
The Bosch 69100 is slightly larger and higher pressure but can feed anything we have. Just saw that one for about $80 on Amazon. Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

After reading the type 3 thread, I think I will go for the Airtex E2000 pump. Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

I'm going with the Airtex E2000. Now I need some fatherly advice---- or in my case father needs some sonly advice. Using this pump would you use the Y connection installation, or go straight to the tank? Or does it make any difference? Bob
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