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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:46 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Thanks for this info. I have always suspected the pump since having problems starting, but didn't know why. Sometimes I can turn the switch on and off many times, and it will fire a few times and stop, and then have to do the same thing over many times to get started. Once started it runs great. Also I have noticed when I give up starting(didn't wnt to run the battery down), but came back in a few minutes and it started right off with just a touch of the starter switch. Bob |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Just so I can understand what your saying about pumps for type 4. The Type 4 pump has three outlets, suction, pressure, return. The other pumps I think your suggesting have only one outlet, so how do you adjust for that? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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titan3c wrote: |
Just so I can understand what your saying about pumps for type 4. The Type 4 pump has three outlets, suction, pressure, return. The other pumps I think your suggesting have only one outlet, so how do you adjust for that? |
The D-jet tbree lort pump has routing like thks:
Tank-----filter-----pump inlet "S" -----pump discharge "D"-------damper------fuel rail pressure side-----regulator-----return line-----"Y" fitting-----right side of Y fitting to "R" on pump-----left side to return nipple on tank.
The two port L-jet pump goes like this:
Tank------filter------inlet port on pump-----outlet port on pump------damper-----fuel rail pressure side-----regulator-----return line -------** here you have a choice**
A. connect to the Y fitting....left leg going to another Y fitting between pump and filter. On older L-jet pumps they primed and kept up with volume easier by using some of the return fuel along with fuel from the filter-----right leg to tank return nipple.
B. Return line to tank deleting the Y fittings.
Newer turbine type two port pumps have less priming issues than earlier pumps and have more stable fuel pressure. This is because they have better designed internal bypass circuits and outlet check valves.
The original D-jet thred port pump had better self priming characteristics than the eatlier two port pumps because of the internal relief valve. It keeps pressure head across the roller cells down low enough that suction is stronger. All the R port and Y fitting does is to allow the pump bypass fuel to return to tank.
Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Great----think I got it. Correct me if I'm wrong. The existing Y in it's original installation on Djet is already connected to the nipple on the tank. So to install a 2 port pump, a new Y is installed between the pump and filter, and the two Y's are connected. Is this a basic explanation?
Next I need to study your comments on the various pumps and decide on a pump. I see even Parts Geek has a pump they say is for a 411, but I've been stung by them before on parts they say fits a 411. I also noticed on one post that the air cooled Vanagan pump works. |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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On Ebay there's a Hag Walbro pump for $49.95. Is this brand of pump OK? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:41 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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You need to shop for a pump by volume and pressure first. Then make sure its size fits and remember that not too many modern pumps have barbed fittings. You will probably need to install a new plug type at the end of the wire.
There are hundreds of part #s that will work with more or less work.
Give me a couple and I will give you a list of part #s
Yes...Walbro is a decent brand. Airtex is a good brand, Bosch and others. Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:36 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Thanks----do me a favor, and check my post before this last one, and tell me if I'm right. Bob |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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titan3c wrote: |
Thanks----do me a favor, and check my post before this last one, and tell me if I'm right. Bob |
The ebay pump?.....you need to check the part,# carefully. Tbe price is a little low.....and normally tells me that its either a low pressure feeder pump, an electric carb pump or an in-tank pump.....none of which will work. Post a link so I can see what you are looking at and a part #. Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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OK right now I can give you the ebay item number. 220568299565 |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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OK right now I can give you the ebay item number. 220568299565 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:40 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Item has been removed. Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Hmmm that's strange, because it's still on there. It looks the same as most of the two port pumps, and is for a 80-85 Vanagan. The mfg part number listed is lN122692. That same pump is listed for many, many other cars too. It's a Walbro pump. The cheap price makes me wonder if it's old. I sent a question asking the flo and pressure rates. Bob |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Tried to copy and paste a picture, but it didn't work. So here is how I get it on Ebay. I used web search "Fuel Pump for 81 Volkswagen Vanagan". Then scroll down until you find "Bosch Fuel Pump Volkswagen Vanagan 80 81 82 83 Ebay " ----- click on that and you can find the Walbro pump for $49.95. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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titan3c wrote: |
Tried to copy and paste a picture, but it didn't work. So here is how I get it on Ebay. I used web search "Fuel Pump for 81 Volkswagen Vanagan". Then scroll down until you find "Bosch Fuel Pump Volkswagen Vanagan 80 81 82 83 Ebay " ----- click on that and you can find the Walbro pump for $49.95. |
I found it. Sure...it should work if it works on a vanagon. All of these have roughly the same pressure and flow specs. I have no idea what kind of fittings it has.
The part number for the walbro on ebay does nothing on the Wabro site. I have no idea what that means.
http://walbrofuelpumps.com/volkswagen-vanagon-1980-1983-fuel-pump-4-cyl-2-0l.html
I got this from the walbro site. Scroll down and look at all the pumps it interchanges with
Try this thread. Its got a ton of crossover pumps.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640244&highlight=
Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:01 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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Just to make clear I understand your instructions concerning the "Y" fittings changing from three port to two port:
1. Install a Y fitting between the filter and pump with the Y facing the filter.
2. The existing Y has the left side connected to the tank. Change that to the right side of the Y. Connect the left side of the Y to the Y between the filter and pump.
Question: Does it really make a difference which side of the Y goes where? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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titan3c wrote: |
Just to make clear I understand your instructions concerning the "Y" fittings changing from three port to two port:
1. Install a Y fitting between the filter and pump with the Y facing the filter.
2. The existing Y has the left side connected to the tank. Change that to the right side of the Y. Connect the left side of the Y to the Y between the filter and pump.
Question: Does it really make a difference which side of the Y goes where? |
Yes...it does...for the exact same reason that the PURPOSELY and STUDIOUSLY use a "Y" instead of a "Tee". Return fuel entering the flowing main line at either a 90* (a Tee) angle creates turbulence that greatly slows down flow. (a Tee) or even worse a "Y"...which enters into the main line at a 45* or 6)* angle...flowing into the face of the incoming fuel...creates even worse turbulence.
At low static fuel pressure...meaning when the tank is not full....this can be the difference in a roller cell pump having issues priming or at times cavitating because its having troubles fighting the turbulence drawing fuel.
Fuel entering into the side of the intake line for the pump...needs to go with the flow....not hit it head on.
The later L-jet and digifant pumps...some of them....can have a few issues with suction which is why on some pumps...pump placement (how low it is placed with reference to the tank)...can have critical results on fuel pressure stability and pump life.
Sorry for the crude sketches....
This is regular D-jet with a three-port pump. Note the direction of the "Y"
This is using an L-jet pump or similar. Note the direction of the "Y's". The purpose is tyo take advantage of the volume and small velocity of the return fuel to help keep a lot of readily accessible fuel right in front of the pump inlet...so it does not have to work so hard at suction. Any excess will go straight to the return.
If your pump suction is strong enough....and a lot of the late model turbine pumps are strong enough...you may be able to do away with the "Y's" altogether making it straight out...tank----filter---pump----damper and straight back in ....return line---to tank.
Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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OK thank you------ very interesting. I'll try for a turbine pump. I don't think the one I was looking at on ebay is a turben. But now with your help I can hook up either one. Thank you. Bob |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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titan3c wrote: |
OK thank you------ very interesting. I'll try for a turbine pump. I don't think the one I was looking at on ebay is a turben. But now with your help I can hook up either one. Thank you. Bob |
The airtex E2000 and the Bosch 69100 are both two-port turbine pumps listed in that thread.
Summit racing and others have the E2000 for about $65. Many people use those for D-jet with excellent results.
The Bosch 69100 is slightly larger and higher pressure but can feed anything we have. Just saw that one for about $80 on Amazon. Ray |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:02 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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After reading the type 3 thread, I think I will go for the Airtex E2000 pump. Bob |
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titan3c Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 568 Location: Coweta, Oklahoma
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution |
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I'm going with the Airtex E2000. Now I need some fatherly advice---- or in my case father needs some sonly advice. Using this pump would you use the Y connection installation, or go straight to the tank? Or does it make any difference? Bob |
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