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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
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Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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There are no differences in 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0 cases/blocks....other than some minor casting differences that had to do with age/year and not displacement.
There is no difference whatsoever in a 2.0 914 and 2.0 bus crankshaft other than if driven in a bus its probably been beaten to death.
So...if its a 1.8 case with a 2.0 crank and rods...then effectively its identical to a 2.0. There is no "honing" necessary for any of this with respect to the case.
If its EA...it could just as easily be from a 411 or 412 and not a bus...and can just as easily have been a 1.8 out of a 412....which makes it identical in every way to a 1.8 from a 914....and could just as easily be a complete 2.0 now....because all it requires (with reference to the case) is installing the 71mm 2.0 crank and rods.
Whether its a bus 2.0 or a 914 2.0 is what heads are on it and what pistons/compression it has. Don't let the case codes or numbers throw you. Those have no importance at all with reference to whether is a 2.0 or not.
Ray |
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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
There are no differences in 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0 cases/blocks....other than some minor casting differences that had to do with age/year and not displacement.
There is no difference whatsoever in a 2.0 914 and 2.0 bus crankshaft other than if driven in a bus its probably been beaten to death.
So...if its a 1.8 case with a 2.0 crank and rods...then effectively its identical to a 2.0. There is no "honing" necessary for any of this with respect to the case.
If its EA...it could just as easily be from a 411 or 412 and not a bus...and can just as easily have been a 1.8 out of a 412....which makes it identical in every way to a 1.8 from a 914....and could just as easily be a complete 2.0 now....because all it requires (with reference to the case) is installing the 71mm 2.0 crank and rods.
Whether its a bus 2.0 or a 914 2.0 is what heads are on it and what pistons/compression it has. Don't let the case codes or numbers throw you. Those have no importance at all with reference to whether is a 2.0 or not.
Ray |
so how can i tell if this is a 2.0 crank?
i want a 2.0 for my 914... i have this EA type IV case and 2 EA 1.7 914 motors....
no 2.0 heads.... |
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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| and what Diff from a EA 411 case vs a EA 914 case? different oil cooler location, and dip stick? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| broomhandle wrote: |
| and what Diff from a EA 411 case vs a EA 914 case? different oil cooler location, and dip stick? |
There is no difference...none whatsoever. The oil coolers and locations are identical.
If you have an EA case from a 411 or 412 station wagon model....the only difference is that the lower casting hole for the wagon dipstick tube has been machined/drilled....and the top dipstick location hole had not been drilled.
The EA 1.7 cases that were used in the 411 and 412 two and four door sedans were aet up identically to the 914....top dipstick and lower dipstick hole casting undisturbed.....engine set up with D-jet injection on the 1.7 (identical to 1.7l 914) or in the case of the 1.8L in the 41412....identical to the 1.8 in the 914 in every way.
The fastest way to know if you have a 2.0L crank is to measure the rod journal. It will be smaller. The 2.0 is 49.9mm and the 1.7/1.8 are 55mm.
Ray |
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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| broomhandle wrote: |
| and what Diff from a EA 411 case vs a EA 914 case? different oil cooler location, and dip stick? |
There is no difference...none whatsoever. The oil coolers and locations are identical.
If you have an EA case from a 411 or 412 station wagon model....the only difference is that the lower casting hole for the wagon dipstick tube has been machined/drilled....and the top dipstick location hole had not been drilled.
The EA 1.7 cases that were used in the 411 and 412 two and four door sedans were aet up identically to the 914....top dipstick and lower dipstick hole casting undisturbed.....engine set up with D-jet injection on the 1.7 (identical to 1.7l 914) or in the case of the 1.8L in the 41412....identical to the 1.8 in the 914 in every way.
The fastest way to know if you have a 2.0L crank is to measure the rod journal. It will be smaller. The 2.0 is 49.9mm and the 1.7/1.8 are 55mm.
Ray |
thank you ray. How would I measure the rod journal? where would that be?
you cant tell by markings what i have? The guy told me it was bored out to fit 96mm pistons, stroker and rabby cam and he ran 914 2.0 heads/ weber 44's...
i should measure the bore, do you know the size?
so as for a 411/12 vs 914 the case/crank are the same, just pistons and heads are different?
I thought the piston heads were dish/dome vs flat...
the goal is to get power, i have weber 44idf's i was going to run... |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I would slow down and so some serious research. That includes of course tearing the engine down and checking to see what you have and whats good. The type 4 engine is not a quicky slap it together build.
You may very well have a 2.0l.....but doubtful. The 2.0l has 94mm pistons. This is most probably a 2056 build....and would be an excellent combo with good heads and cam.
The first thing to do is pull off a valve cover and look at the head part #. Also....how many studs holding the intake manifolds on? 3 or 4?
In the best case......the previous owner installed a quality set of 96mm pistons and cylinders, one of Jake Raby's cam designs....hopefully the right one for carbs and this application......with correct lifters......and the heads are either carefully rebuilt 1.8l stockers that have been worked on to flow a little better......in aftermarket AMC castings that have been worked on by someone who works on and knows type 4 heads.
The info that has been provided to you by the seller is essentially worthless without knowing:
who built the heads
What cam
What valves
To the other question:
411/412/914 1.7l all used domed pistons for 8.2:1 compression on all but the California spec engine. It essentially used dished bush pistons.
Some early catbed euro cars used a flat top piston.
The 1.8l in 412 and 914 in the US with L-jet injection used the same dished 93mm pistons. There was a Euro late model 412 with 1.8l.....carbed that had i belive a domed piston....8.6:1 compression....AN series same as used on Euro 1.8 with a domed piston.
The 2.0 914 had a dished piston for US...GA series at 7.8:1 comlression and the GB with I "think" flat top pistons with 8.0:1.
Camshafts are critical to the performance of all of these. Ray |
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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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thanks for helping. yes, he said it was a 2056 build with 96mm's and 914 2.0 heads.
here is a pic. its a EA code, and i know its not a 914 block.
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
I dont have pistons or heads... it was 50.00... I got it more for the 914 2.0 crank and a rabby cam... but who knows... I hope its at least a 2.0 crank... etc... |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| broomhandle wrote: |
thanks for helping. yes, he said it was a 2056 build with 96mm's and 914 2.0 heads.
here is a pic. its a EA code, and i know its not a 914 block.
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
2.0 ea by Broomhandle Zero, on Flickr
I dont have pistons or heads... it was 50.00... I got it more for the 914 2.0 crank and a rabby cam... but who knows... I hope its at least a 2.0 crank... etc... |
Ok....so you have only the block right?
So it is probably a 411/412 block. Its dipstick tube is correct for a 914, 411, 412. Thats a good thing.
Those look like 2.0L rods. Are the lifters still in their bores and or have they been shuffled around?
So at this point...without any pistons or heads its not anything right now...neither 2.0l or 2056. Ray |
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broomhandle
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Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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The lifters are moved around. and only a few are there.
so, for my 914 i would like power... i had a '70 before with a 1.8 and i always wanted a little more power...
my thought with this was 96 pistons and 2.0 heads... which would make it a 2056... correct? |
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Bleyseng
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Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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yes, those are 2.0L rods so with 96mm pistons you will have a 2056. Cam? hard to tell but it looks fairly low miles.
_________________
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broomhandle
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Joined: August 04, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Half Moon Bay, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bleyseng wrote: |
| yes, those are 2.0L rods so with 96mm pistons you will have a 2056. Cam? hard to tell but it looks fairly low miles. |
cool....
so, if im buying new pistons would it be worth it to go bigger than 96mm? or dome/dish? flat? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| broomhandle wrote: |
The lifters are moved around. and only a few are there.
so, for my 914 i would like power... i had a '70 before with a 1.8 and i always wanted a little more power...
my thought with this was 96 pistons and 2.0 heads... which would make it a 2056... correct? |
Bear in mind.....finding stock 2.0 914 heads is very expensive....and they are 40+ years old now and prone to destructive cracking.
90% of whats for sale used and unworked......are worthless for the high asking prices. The significant differences are the spark plug angle and the chamber vilume and shape.
The 1.8L head is close in volume and similar in shape....can be worked to be very close....but the plug angle is serious machine work and welding. The valve sizes of the 1.8 and 914 2.0 are the same.
Best option for 914 replica heads.....of better quality than factory is HAM Inc. They have new AMC castings that are CNC milled with relocated plug angles. Pricey but worth th3 money.
The reason the 914 1.8 was a dog is the same reason it was in the 412. It was low compression, loose deck and coupled with basic L-jet that had a little less than excellent adjustability though it was reliable.
A well tuned 1.7 in either the 914 or a 412 spanks the 1.8.....and i dont mean the factory level of sloppy tune that came on the 1.7. Add better valves ....42 x 36....a better ignition, better cam, slightly higher compression, better exhaust, a 5mm larger TB and some careful tuning to the injection and the 1.7 with D-jet easily gives the 2.0 with,D-jet and stock tuning a run for its money.
That being said.....if you are going carbs you can build a 2056 with basically 1.8 configured new heads and have better hp than the stock 2.0.
You will need new lifters and probably a new cam. You don't play around with used or questionable cams on a type 4 engine.
You will need upgraded valve train. The best money you can spend is the complete cam and valve train kit from the type 4 store....Raby designed cam made by,Web, chromoly pushrods, new gear, matched lifters, new rocker shafts, springs, retainers and Genuine Porsche swivel feet adjusters....all in one box.
The best heads will be either rebuilt and cut 1.8s with new valves and seats by Adrian at headflow masters. ...or a little pricier but top of the line......new 1.8 heads with correct valves cut for 2.0 by HAM Inc.
This will not be a cheap engine but will be good. Ray |
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