Does the ideal Vanagon battery charger exist?

[flattire]

And then there is the " FAT MAX"! Does everything but trim your nails. One unit that includes ---A pair of jumper cables---compresser to inflate tires---2 ac outlets--- esp outlet----led work light---. I think that is all. Made buy Standley. Forget the price ( Was a gift )

[kourt]

Howdy,

I'm using a Mean Well TN-1500 inverter/charger/charge controller:

http://www.alliedelec.com/mean-well-usa-tn-1500-148f/70069832/#tab=similar

I understand that this product may not totally fit in the context of this thread, but it is a battery charger. My shore power connection on the outside of the van runs directly to this charger. The charger is connected to the house battery bank, and further connected to the starter battery via a Yandina automatic combiner.

When plugged into shore power, the Mean Well charges the house bank until full, and then charges the starter battery.

When sitting in sunlight (100w solar on the roof) the Mean Well charges the house bank until full, and then charges the starter battery.

When the van is running the alternator charges the starter battery until full, and then charges the house bank.

The Mean Well inverter feature draws from the house bank and never draws from the starter battery. Outlets in the van are served by the inverter. When plugged into shore power, the inverter passes AC power through to the interior AC outlets automatically.

I have it mounted under my refrigerator, with a remote control behind the driver's seat, shown here in the lower right corner.

This is a low maintenance, low complexity, single appliance, easy to use system that gives and gets power in all the typical circumstances encountered in the Vanagon environment.

Love this setup. For me it's "the ideal charger" because it's permanently mounted and manages all forms of charging (shore power, solar power) and AC power consumption--though it's worth noting the Yandina combiner is a major player in this system, and the house battery bank is 165Ah, and the solar is 100w. The whole system matters, but the Mean Well charger is at the center of it all.

kourt

[j_dirge]

[dobryan]

Can't remember but I think it was Karl westyventures that recommended them.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[IdahoDoug]

Well, I got my Schumacher charger today. Finding one was actually difficult - not something we come to expect in 2016 where everything is at our fingertips. Winning a couple of consumer tests seems to have been the culprit. All the local stores that carry them are still out since I have been casually looking starting in November. I finally capitulated and got one via Amazon.

Anyway, I am not really happy with it. I have two cars that just sit and I started with one of these. The battery was merely low, but less than 2 years old and always starts it. I thought I'd just go from car to car, charging them. I came back to the car a couple hours later and it was sitting there flashing. Figuring that meant it was done I disconnected and moved to car #2. Same thing a couple hours later. OK, cool. Put it on a 9 month old deep cycle sitting on the floor of the garage for the winter (boat battery), and it did the same thing. Wow, pretty fast. But before I disconnected it, I went to get the manual to see what the flashing means. Whats this? The code is not listed. It's a "6" and then some unintelligible figure kind of like a backward 6.

Moved it to the second boat batter and came inside to do research. Seems like others are having an issue where it hits an overheat state and then shuts off. If you restart it, others report it will continue to charge the battery normally. Crap, so the first 3 batteries are not necessarily charged. Aargh. And that means this is not a "set and forget" product like it was sold. Sophisticated sensors detect your battery's charge state, blah, blah.

And it's worth pointing out that the ambient temperature is 33 degrees while the charger is hitting some nebulous overheat mode. Hmmm....

So I've returned the charger to battery #3 to see if it will indeed continue up to full charge and I will contact Schumacher to see if this is normal behavior. If normal, I will return it because I need set and forget, not babysitting. I still have 4 more batteries to charge, and this is my everyday tasking.

Does anyone with a Schumacher know if this is how they all work? Mine is the larger SC10030 model.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[IdahoDoug]

OK, finally got it figured out. The display is actually blinking 3 characters not two and if you squint and hold your tongue just right, it is saying "bad" then "bat". Apparently, 3 batteries in a row I have used and maintained are bad. None of them are more than 18mos old. And this display message is not mentioned anywhere in the manual that came with it.

So, I have now put it on a vehicle we drive almost every day and it has a big badass new battery. If it tells me that this battery is a "bad" "bat" then I am 100% certain I have a "bad" "charger" even though that display message is not in the manual......
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[nocreditnodebt]

Automatic chargers will usually not attempt to try and charge a battery whose voltage is 10.5v or less.

To get these 'smart' chargers to work on such a battery, one needs to use jumper cables and hook as known good battery in the 12.5v+ range to it and restart the charger.

My Schumacher charger, a Discontinued sc2500a is a neurotic mess.

I was hoping that thicker dc output leads from circuit board to battery would help it become less neurotic, but no dice.

On The AGM setting usually it will not go above 15 volts, and it will then float at 13.6v. It usually reverts to 13.6v way too soon, but 13.6 held for another 12 hours usually will get the battery up in the 96 to 98% charged range.

With my adjustable voltage Meanwell powersupply, I can usually stuff a few more AH into any battery that was 'fully' charged by some automatic charging source, indicating the automatic charging source was incapable of achieving a full charge.

I have an older manual 2/10 amp transformer based charger I once trusted, foolishly a decade ago. Now that i have the proper tools and knowledge, I can see It will not go higher than 6 amps nor higher than 14.2v. A very poor battery charger and a poor purchase which also explains why I never got good lifespans out of batteries I recharged with it.

A true 100% recharge achieved promptly after any discharge is required for maximum lead acid battery longevity. 95% is not nearly good enough.

[IdahoDoug]

"Automatic chargers will usually not attempt to try and charge a battery whose voltage is 10.5v or less. "

Yeah, I've found that issue in reviews, but not the issue I seem to have. On all my batteries it has identified a charge level and begun working. The charge level goes up and up into the 60s over a half hour's time before it abruptly decides it is a bad battery. The reviews are all over the place. I generally have good luck purchasing top rated products and look at a few reviews. I would use this strategy again to purchase something but at the moment it looks like something's amiss.

I just checked and a daily driver it is reporting that it started at 62% of battery capacity and is now at 70%. I have never had numbers reported on a battery using % of capacity so I don't really have a feel for it - but can that be accurate? A big new Group 24 battery in daily use is routinely down under 60% of its capacity?
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Merian]

these are chargers and not maintainers, right?

if chargers, then they are trying to outsmart you by fitting the voltage they measure into an algorithm

the thing to do is to find an old used dumb charger at a garage sale or pawn store

dumb chargers cannot outwit you

[IdahoDoug]

It claims to be both. It can put out 100A for jump starting, and much less for charging. It's supposed to be able to condition batteries, handle AGM and Gel batteries, etc and then when its charged, a green LED is supposed to click on and it goes to a minimal maintenance mode and can be left that way. It was so soothing to read the marketing. I have yet to be soothed.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[nocreditnodebt]

When these Schumachers claim a % charged, they are doing so based on initial voltage when first hooked to a battery. They do not have any magical battery state of charge sensing wizardry that their marketing team tries to imply.

It is not accurate, just a feel good feature for the less than informed.

I do not know why the unit is stopping prematurely and claiming a bad battery, if it did it on just one battery I'd lend some credence to it, but not when it happens on every battery it is attached to.

I'd have to presume a faulty charger.

Have you tried it on other amperage settings or try it on the AGM setting?

There is no danger to using the AGM setting on a flooded battery, it will just not allow as high a voltage and when it drops to float this voltage will be ~13.6v instead of 13.2.

Also, do not believe the voltmeter on the chargers display until you verify it. Mine Schu sc2500a is only accurate to within 0.1v when it is NOT charging, or charging at very low amperage. When charging at more than 2 amps it reads upto 1 volt lower than actual voltage measured at the battery terminal.

[IdahoDoug]

Aaaaaaaaaaannnnnd its a total flop. Posting that reminded me to jump out of bed and run down to the garage to see how it's doing on the daily driver. Like every vehicle I own, it also apparently has a bad battery. So I'll call the company in the morning and deal with it.

Crapola.

OK, so back to my original question. Anyone have a recommendation for a good battery charger?

DougM

Edit - just saw your post. I did not try it in other modes, but I think you are right that something is not well with the unit I got. I love the theory of it and may accept a new one to give it a go, depending on how they treat me. Will update but still looking for recommendations.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Howesight]

I have had a good experience with the NOCO Genius 7200. It works best when the battery is disconnected. It cannot be used effectively to charge both my house battery and my starting battery - - it must be connected to one or the other. My Surepower 1315 battery separator allows the electrical connection to charge both batteries simultaneously, but the charger works poorly when trying to do this, hence the need to disconnect.

I also use the NOCO to do a monthly equalization charge on my Trojan lead-acid house battery. It does this job well also.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[nocreditnodebt]

I've seen on other forums that this one, for an Automatic charger, does pretty well:

http://www.amazon.com/SOLAR-PL2520-Pro-Logix-Batte...PCX0F28DVZ

No personal experience with it.

Ctek and Noco chargers seem to be well regarded by those that have them, again, no personal experience with them

I am a bit more hands on and use a meanwell rsp-500-15 adjustable voltage power supply:

I modified mine with more fans and heatsinking, and wired a 10 turn potentiometer to easily dial in any voltage from 13.12 to 19.23. It will output 40 amps and it gets pretty hot at that output level, which is why I upgraded the fans and heatsinking.

I also modified a wattmeter with 8awg leads replacing 12awg aluminum leads to count/measure/display output current.

When amps fall to 2 to 3% of flooded battery capacity at 14.4 to 14.8v, I either turn it off or reduce voltage to 13.2.

When my AGM battery tapers to 0.5% of battery capacity at 14.46v, I lower voltage to 13.6 to 13.8v or shut it off.

As I type it is holding my AGm at 13.8v producing 2.83 amps to power this laptop and my TV and a few LEd lights. 0.0x amps are flowing into the battery as it is chock full and can't accept anything more.

I could put a 40 amp load on my system and it would hold voltage at 13.8v.

Consider putting one of these on your charger's output:
http://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumptio...tpower+130

For those interested in the manual aspect of my adjustable voltage power supply:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RSP-500-15/?qs=8uyp%2Fy7yFW4u946GFlR%252b8A%3D%3D

For those interested in manual adjustable voltage charging this but do not want to fool with additional ventilation and heatsinking or adding a 10 turn potentiometer:

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-BPCM-45-45...qCHSporLUI

These adjustable voltage PowerMax units go upto 120 amps, and these are powerfactor corrected and can be run on a standard 15 amp household circuit. I recommend contacting Errin at Powermaxconverters.com and ordering through him directly.

One great thing about these powermax converters is they go upto 15.5volts, which should be enough to perform an Authentic equalization charge on a deep cycle flooded battery in need of a capacity reset.

15.5 volts is also lifeline AGM's prescribed 'conditioning' charge voltage.

They do sell units with alligator clips and a handle too:

http://powermaxconverters.com/product/pmbc-12-volt/

35 amps is their smallest charger, but if one starts with a voltage of ~13 they can be used on a single 75AH starting battery as they only make enough amperage to achieve the set voltage. One can just bump the voltage accordingly to keep the amp flow under a desired number.

I don't fear high amp recharging as many people do. My AGM requires it, my flooded group31 tolerated it. More important is charging to full which most automatic chargers fall short of.

I fear the trickle charger mentality as the trickle charger might not have enough time to get to 100% and might never get to high enough of a voltage to max out specific gravity no matter how long it is left on a battery.

[Tom Powell]

After reading the cons about "smart" chargers, if I were to buy another battery charger this would be my choice.

http://www.sears.com/diehard-71221-manual-battery-...ckType=G31

I like the analog gauge. The rate of initial charge will tell me something about the state of the battery. The rate at which charge drops will tell me something about the condition of the battery. When the rate drops to near zero I know the battery is fully charged. It may take twenty four hours to charge a battery and I usually check the charging rate every few hours. I bought a similar charger from Sears and it still works well fifty years later.

Aloha
tp

[j_dirge]

Doug,
Sounds like a bad unit, to me.
I have the Schumacher SC1200A and it has worked fine. It has been able to bring a couple of my batteries back to better service thru its variable charge.. (checked in use)

I am soothed by it.. admittedly.. because I can walk away and not give it a second thought. But I do see there are reviews like your's that suggest that QA/QC is not the best at Schumacher.. in production phase.

I have to admit though, I am becoming less and less tech-oriented. Preferring old-school to new...
"Hey kid get off my LAWN!"

I don't bother with AGM batteries anymore and have fallen back on good old fashioned "lead-acid" varieties.
I spent WAY too much money back in the day.. trying to create the perfect battery systems on a couple of different offshore racing yachts.. And it was a fool's chase.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[dobryan]

I still love my Iota.....
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[61Scout]

After coming across some glowing reviews in a RV forum I read, I purchased one of these "all-in-one" chargers. It's awesome. Best "smart" battery charger I've ever had. Does everything the website says it does.

http://www.saveabattery.com/

-Kevin
_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=

-Nec Spe, Nec Metu

[MidwestDrifter]

[IdahoDoug]

Well, I'm sending this one back for an exchange, and honestly I hope I get a good one. People who have them do seem to really like the "set and forget" aspect and that's what I need as well. I was able to speak to a live and informed person at Schumacher, which I liked.

I clicked the box for Amazon to send me out a new one and put it on my credit card, so this one should cross it in the mail. I'm curious if it really happens that way, rather than them waiting to ship until the defective one comes in. I've always wanted a merchant to offer that service to minimize the turnaround so I am hopeful.

Today, I tried the AGM setting and it did seem to continue charging longer, but ended up also going into "bad battery" mode before getting the battery charged above 70% or so.

Will see. I would like to be able to bring it on longer trips where I'm in a campground and can plug the charger into the van's house battery and have it full while we sleep, etc. It's not too big for that function.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader