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rcroane 
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Joined: January 03, 2013
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Location: Springfield, Virginia
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: Valve adjustment procedure question - Chapter closed |
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I'm not clear on one aspect of the valve adjustment process. Do I measure the gap with the top of the rocker arm (valve end) in its lowest position or do I measure it with the top of the rocker arm in its highest position (by first pushing down on the bottom end of the rocker arm)?
Hope my question makes sense.
Thanks.
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Last edited by rcroane on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dwayne1m
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Helfen
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Valve adjustment procedure question |
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| rcroane wrote: |
I'm not clear on one aspect of the valve adjustment process. Do I measure the gap with the top of the rocker arm (valve end) in its lowest position or do I measure it with the top of the rocker arm in its highest position (by first pushing down on the bottom end of the rocker arm)?
Hope my question makes sense.
Thanks. |
you measure the gap on a cold motor with the arm loose, that is with the lower part of the arm inwards towards the cam the most. you rotate the motor to top dead center (valves fully closed) for each cylinder one at a time and adjust both valve for that cylinder before moving to the next cylinder.
remember that the cam rotates trice for each crank rotation, so each 180 degree roation of the crank brings you to a new top dead center. not that the piston is at top twice for each cycle of the cam, you want to pick the top dead center when the valves are closed for adjustment, NOT when the valves are open (ie when the arms are loaded by the pushrods being up on the cam lobe) you want the pushrod for each cylinder you adjust to be fully inwards and completely Off the lobe for adjustment position.
I find it very helpful to record the before adjustment measurement of each valve in my log book then make the adjustment. then over the course of many valve adjustment you can track is a particular valve(s) is constantly tight or loose, which would be an indication of a valve stretching or valve seat moving around. for a healthy motor the valve can be expected to change little between the valve adjustment period, maybe .002 inches at most. if you record that one valve is always getting to be .004 inch tight, for instance, that would indicate you got a problem creeping up on your motor.
good luck
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rcroane
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Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| that is with the lower part of the arm inwards towards the cam the most |
Sorry, I'm still not sure I understand. Does inward towards the cam mean that the lower part of the arm is pushed down so the upper part is raised up?
Thanks for the replies.
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Cusser
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rcroane wrote: |
| Quote: |
| that is with the lower part of the arm inwards towards the cam the most |
Sorry, I'm still not sure I understand. Does inward towards the cam mean that the lower part of the arm is pushed down so the upper part is raised up?
Thanks for the replies. |
Down is not inwards. down is down, towards the ground, inwards is towards the engine, towards the cam shaft. The rocker arms do not move down, then move in and out when the engine is mounted in the car.
if the engine is on a stand and tilted 90 degrees to the side, then you have up and down movement of the rockers.
Is the motor your working on in the car our on a stand and tilted?
Inwards towards the cam would mean that the pushrod is moved towards the cam.
the lower part of the rocker then would be pushed inwards, the upper part of the rocker would then be outwards.
so long as the cam is in the right position for each cylinders valve adjustment, you do not need to force the rocker one way or the other, simply use a feeler gage, the gage itself will push the upper part of the rocker out and the lower part in. the gage will fill the gap between the rocker adjusting screw and the valve tip. this will force the lower part of the rocker inwards.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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61SNRF
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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In simple terms, you place it flat between the tip of the valve adjusting screw and the tip of the valve stem.
Pretty good pictorial illustration in the '65 Owner's manual. If you don't have one have a look here under the Technical tab...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/61_65bug_replacement/page55.jpg
Must say though not knowing even where to place the feeler gauge is somewhat alarming 
You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. Once you do get past where to put it, you'll soon be asking us to explain what it should feel like. Sorry, can't do that with pictures  
You can drastically effect the way the engine runs by this adjustment, both positively and negatively, so might I suggest checking out or two of the many YouTube videos as a fair prerequisite?
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Last edited by 61SNRF on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Rotate your crank shaft to top dead center marked on the crank pulley at the case split. Align the rotor, with the dist. cap removed to the mark for the#1 cylinder firing position.
Remove the valve cover from the passenger side location.
Grab the rocker arms for both the exhaust and the intake valves for the #1 cylinder and give them left right wiggle(meaning from drivers to passengers side). If the piston is at the full compression stroke. The rocker arms will be loose enough to move just a bit (a slight clacking sound can be heard).
Adjust your valve clearance as needed for your engine build.
Repeat this procedure for all cylinders moving the crank and rotor to the appropriate location for the firing position until complete.
Button it all up and make sure that there are no leaks.
Drive it.
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Bruce
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
| You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. |
That's what I learned many years ago. Then I realized that's the dumb way to use feeler gauges.
If you want to set the gap to .006", spread out your .006" gauge and your .007" gauge. Then adjust the gap until the 6 goes and the 7 doesn't go. Takes out all the subjectivity and "feel".
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| 61SNRF wrote: |
| You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. |
That's what I learned many years ago. Then I realized that's the dumb way to use feeler gauges.
If you want to set the gap to .006", spread out your .006" gauge and your .007" gauge. Then adjust the gap until the 6 goes and the 7 doesn't go. Takes out all the subjectivity and "feel". |
right on with that.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Sharp64
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| The Idiots guide to keeping your VW running gives a really good explanation and some diagrams on this. It's not as detailed as the $120 Bentley manual that is often suggested but it has some very good useful info. Might be worth picking up. |
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rcroane
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone. I've got it now.
My bigger issue right now is several of the adjusting screw locknuts won't budge. 
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Cusser
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| rcroane wrote: |
| My bigger issue right now is several of the adjusting screw locknuts won't budge. |
Bob - I've encountered this, more often decades ago when I worked on customers' VWs.
I'd recommend to use a six-point 13mm socket to get these loosened, and "save" the 13mm box wrench for tightening while you hold the set screw in place with the slotted screwdriver. Be sure to hold that 13mm socket perfectly in-line so it doesn't slip off; if need be slide a short length of pipe over the ratchet or breaker bar for more leverage, or even use a 1/2 inch drive socket with a breaker bar. Good luck !
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Helfen
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
In simple terms, you place it flat between the tip of the valve adjusting screw and the tip of the valve stem.
Pretty good pictorial illustration in the '65 Owner's manual. If you don't have one have a look here under the Technical tab...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/61_65bug_replacement/page55.jpg
Must say though not knowing even where to place the feeler gauge is somewhat alarming
You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. Once you do get past where to put it, you'll soon be asking us to explain what it should feel like. Sorry, can't do that with pictures
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I like that analogy!
When I worked as a VW line and later unit repair mechanic we use the long 12" feeler gauges ( I still use them ) and you can always tell when the valves set right. When you pull the long feeler gauges through they will sing when the clearance is correct. |
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rcroane
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Location: Springfield, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Must say though not knowing even where to place the feeler gauge is somewhat alarming
You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. Once you do get past where to put it, you'll soon be asking us to explain what it should feel like. Sorry, can't do that with pictures
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Need to defend myself a bit here....I never said I didn't know where to insert the feeler gauge or how to use one. My original question was how to position the rocker arm before inserting the feeler gauge. I've got my answer now and appreciate the responses. Thanks.
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KTPhil
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| I'd recommend to use a six-point 13mm socket to get these loosened, and "save" the 13mm box wrench for tightening while you hold the set screw in place with the slotted screwdriver. Be sure to hold that 13mm socket perfectly in-line so it doesn't slip off; if need be slide a short length of pipe over the ratchet or breaker bar for more leverage, or even use a 1/2 inch drive socket with a breaker bar. Good luck ! |
Good advice. Also, if they are rounded off already, replace the nuts, and maybe the adjusting studs, too. Both are often worn and the ease of adjusting them with new parts will make you wish you had done it sooner! |
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rcroane
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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That's my plan....8 new ones already on the way from WW. And I think I'm just going to remove the rocker arm assembly and do it all on the bench.
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Tim Donahoe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I've encountered really tight nuts when doing valves, so I just use my ratchet and socket to loosen them.
Also, I wouldn't take out the rocker-arm assembly. You can open up other problems--as a novice--concerning doughnut seals.
Tim
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61SNRF
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| rcroane wrote: |
| Quote: |
Must say though not knowing even where to place the feeler gauge is somewhat alarming
You should also be aware they are called "Feeler" gauges for a reason, as in it takes a highly practiced and subjective "feel" for the desired slight drag required to pull one through the gap for an accurate measurement. Once you do get past where to put it, you'll soon be asking us to explain what it should feel like. Sorry, can't do that with pictures
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Need to defend myself a bit here....I never said I didn't know where to insert the feeler gauge or how to use one. My original question was how to position the rocker arm before inserting the feeler gauge. I've got my answer now and appreciate the responses. Thanks. |
Sorry if I may have overcooked my reply, perhaps I didn't fully understand your first question and your wants/needs 
In my defense, the way you worded it did make it difficult to access your basic skill level
The Owner's manual I linked you to does have a fair explanation, did that not help at all?
AFA best practice, a 12 point 13mm long offset box wrench is a good wrench to use. You want to use a long wrench with some leverage with a Lazy Z-bend to clear to heater boxes, and 12 pt box for good bite and finer adjustments.
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product..._17649.jpg
A short yet full handled screw driver with a tip that fits the adjusting screw slot exactly is another must have.
As Bruce suggests, using two feeler gauges is a good way to test your methods and boost your self confidence of accuracy, though it does not account for any wear or cupping of the valve stem/rocker tip which can result in inaccurate feeler gauge valve lash "readings".
For years I've only used a .006", and after doing 1000's have learned before and after adjustment to pull/push on every rocker and listen to the sound of the rap it makes.
Compare them all with each other and soon you can judge the unique and different sounds for an idea of pass/fail.
Your feeler gauge may say it's set to .006", but your ears can tell you if it's more than that and requires a closer look at the rocker/valve mechanisms for wear or looseness
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