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Just gotta be sure
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up Mike. I had read somewhere that it was 1" that went in there, so currently I have 2 - 6' sections that I already purchased. And you are right, 1-1/4" would have fit great. I test fit the 1" into my pans and there is some slop to deal with. Either I eat the 1" (I don't see the metal shop exchanging them, but I will try) or add some fill metal when I install them. See how it goes.

I got the drivers side of the tunnel welded today. Please be gentle guys, as I am FAR from the welder that Joe is! I am just the occasional welder from work. Anyway, I have a question regarding the strap that will go over the tunnel cut/weld.......do you grind the weld flat so the strap lays flat, or just heat and pound the strap to conform to the weld?

Any critique welcome on the weld.

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


TIA[/img][/u]

BTW, it is an optical illusion as the pan mounting ledges are not that close in reality. I did take the advice from the 90% that said level the top of the two tunnel halves and sides. That is what I did. There is close to a 1/4" difference it height regarding the pan mounting ledges.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

I grind the weld down enough to get the strap metal to lay decently flat, then weld the strap. It will be very strong, and your welds are not that bad. I can tell you got the penetration needed.

Keep at it.
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Thanks Joe.
The passenger side didn't go as well as the drivers. I blew a couple of small holes into the metal when doing the drivers side, so I thought I was running just a little to hot. I am using a Chicago Electric 150T mig, and it only has four settings. I went from "3" to "2", and I thought I would just slow down a bit to make up for the lost amperage. I started welding, and instead of getting the nice sizzle, I was getting popping, with the wire snapping in half close to the gun exit. The welds looked horrible, with a lot of metal built up instead of it laying down. It looked like what was on there to begin with.
I in no way was going to let that go, so I grinded down almost flat, then popped the mig back up to "3", and just increased my speed some. When you look at the pic, that is why it is a wider weld than the drivers side, as I not only wanted to go over the bad job I just did, but also get good penetration into fresh metal. Hope that is ok. I will start the strap either tomorrow or Monday. Again, thanks for your help. Again, any critique of the weld welcome.

TIA

[img]
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[/img]
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Might go down another step.... To much heat and to much wire feed leave you with the big goobers... And blown holes... Gun movement is everything...

Might study a bit here...

http://weldingtipsandtricks.com

Also has videos on Youtube... He is a master...

Dale
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Hey, thanks Dale for the site. LOTS of good info for the rookie like me. I've got some reading to do. so bye!
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

L8ndeb wrote:
Hey, thanks Dale for the site. LOTS of good info for the rookie like me. I've got some reading to do. so bye!


Been studying his tutotials for a few years now, and have learned something new every time I visit it... There is a lot of dangerous crap and people on Youtube/internet and you need a good "BS" filter, but this guy is good.....Another thing I do if I have not welded in a while is do some practice beads before I do the serious stuff...

Dale
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Another thing I do if I have not welded in a while is do some practice beads before I do the serious stuff...

Dale


Yeah, I did some test welds on the tunnel bottom that I took off....same thickness as the tunnel (or it looks to be). It helped me get the settings in the ball park. Just my technique needs some work. Again, thanks for the advice.
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Got another question (what else is new). Maybe this is me being anal, but I would like to know if when fitting the strap to go over the cut/weld area.......as you can see in the pics, the builder did cut pretty close to the e-brake area making it nearly impossible to lay the strap evenly on the cut. If I did lay it evenly, it will rest on the raised area for the e-brake. I guess I either:

1. Place it as close to the e-brake area as possible and still have it lay flat on the cut/weld.
2. Try to heat and form it to the shape of the raised area for the e-brake on the tunnel and place it evenly across the cut/weld.
3. Cut out some material on the strap in the e-brake area to fit around the raised area so I can lay the strap evenly across the cut/weld.

I am using 2" wide strapping/plate.

Also, when welding the strap on, would it be advisable drilling some holes in the strap and welding the perimeter AND the holes, or just the perimeter only?

I am VERY open to any suggestions. TIA
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

I would make the strap in three pieces. Sides and top. Center the sides over the cut. Custom form the top to line up with the sides.

About three 1/2 inch holes in the sides, then welded rosette style will help make it even stronger.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
I would make the strap in three pieces. Sides and top. Center the sides over the cut. Custom form the top to line up with the sides.

About three 1/2 inch holes in the sides, then welded rosette style will help make it even stronger.


Thank Joe, just what I was looking for.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

I made a notch in strap for the e-brakes handle bracket so strap is all one piece so span between tunnel weld and strap weld are the same all over tunnel... Incidentally when a pan cracks its usually at the rear of e-brake bracket and tunnel weld... Have had to repair two tunnels on friends buggies the original builders did not strap...

Dale
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
I made a notch in strap for the e-brakes handle bracket so strap is all one piece so span between tunnel weld and strap weld are the same all over tunnel... Incidentally when a pan cracks its usually at the rear of e-brake bracket and tunnel weld... Have had to repair two tunnels on friends buggies the original builders did not strap...

Dale


Thanks for the advice Dale. I thought about it being in one piece vs two or three pieces. I would think however that if they are all welded together, wouldn't that be OK? Also can you tell me your concern for the "span between tunnel weld and strap weld are the same"?
And speaking of cracks, the tunnel on this one has a crack started at the left rear corner (as you look down on it) of the shifter "box". Just another thing to fix.......
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
About three 1/2 inch holes in the sides, then welded rosette style will help make it even stronger.


Hey Joe,

About the three holes, are you saying maybe two on the left of the cut and one on the right? Say: (disregard the periods)

*
..*
*


TIA
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

I would make the holes right in the center so they pick up the center of the welded seam. With only 1 inch on each side of the cut, not a whole lot of room to move a 1/2 inch hole side to side. Plus, your over-lapping weld will only be 3/4 of an inch away from the rosette welded holes.
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Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
I would make the holes right in the center so they pick up the center of the welded seam. With only 1 inch on each side of the cut, not a whole lot of room to move a 1/2 inch hole side to side. Plus, your over-lapping weld will only be 3/4 of an inch away from the rosette welded holes.


Ok, got it. Thanks
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

L8ndeb wrote:
Dale M. wrote:
I made a notch in strap for the e-brakes handle bracket so strap is all one piece so span between tunnel weld and strap weld are the same all over tunnel... Incidentally when a pan cracks its usually at the rear of e-brake bracket and tunnel weld... Have had to repair two tunnels on friends buggies the original builders did not strap...

Dale


Thanks for the advice Dale. I thought about it being in one piece vs two or three pieces. I would think however that if they are all welded together, wouldn't that be OK? Also can you tell me your concern for the "span between tunnel weld and strap weld are the same"?
And speaking of cracks, the tunnel on this one has a crack started at the left rear corner (as you look down on it) of the shifter "box". Just another thing to fix.......


Either a single piece wrapped over or several pieces is ok also, main thing is the the initial cut/weld on tunnel is supported.... On the span thing... I like to see the tunnel weld centered under the strap there for the span thing would be if you were using 2 inch material, would be 1 inch from origination cut/weld to edge of wrap piece....

Think we may be over analyzing this, as you seem to have concept as to what to do....

Dale
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
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Last edited by Dale M. on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:


Think we may be over analyzing this, as you seem to have concept as to what to do....

Dale


I think you are right. It's me being anal again. Just want to get it right, so sometimes it is hard to pull the trigger in fear of screwing up. You are correct as I do think I have an idea of what to do. Nevertheless, thanks to you and Joe both for your guidance.
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L8ndeb
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Well, certainly NOT my best work, but there is penetration. With the bottom off the tunnel, I can see the back of the weld area.

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Couple of questions.....first, do you guys grind down the strap welds to make it look good, or no. Second, with the bottom off the tunnel, I am wondering if it might be a good idea to weld the back side of the tunnel cut weld?

TIA[/img]
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

L8ndeb wrote:

Couple of questions.....first, do you guys grind down the strap welds to make it look good, or no. Second, with the bottom off the tunnel, I am wondering if it might be a good idea to weld the back side of the tunnel cut weld?


my chassis was actually pretty straight but the weld job looked like it was done by a blindfolded ape. on the outside a ran a few more weld beads all the way around to thicken it then ground it smooth then from the inside of the tunnel I did 3 more beads and along the lower seam I welded it from the inside then cut off the seam tab on the back half and ground it smooth. I also welded in a small plate where the lower seam and the shortening seam intersected on the inside. When I was done I was pretty confident that it was a very strong union between the back and front. welding on the inside is an easy way to weld as much as you want to ad strength without seeing it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

all the work inside made it easy to make the outside look nice. I finished it off with a 1 inch strap along the floor pan
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Just gotta be sure Reply with quote

Looks good. I do grind down the weld to get it flush with the outermost strap piece, so it does not have anything sticking out to catch a seat on.

You can plate from the inside, will not hurt anything, but may be overkill. And as I always say sometimes, too much overkill is not enough.
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Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

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