Dropped bolt

[tomsbuggered]

Today was a day to install engine hood, until I dropped one of the 10 mm hinge bolts into the engine compartment on (right) passenger side. Looked high a low, used magnet under crank pulley, in and around intake manifold, as well as behind fan shroud. I currently don't have the throttle ring installed, as I don't have a thermostat as of yet.

I started engine to pull car into garage and can hear the bolt making "clinking" noise when contacting a rotating part of the engine. I think its impossible for the bolt to have entered the internal part of the engine ??, so I have been concentrating my search on the crank pulley area. If it entered the rear opening of the fan shroud(possible) then my only option would be to drop the engine, remove fan shroud and check around the fan.

Any other ideas ??

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[Mr. Mike]

Sounds like the bolt entered the fan shroud. The fan shroud can be removed with the engine in the car. It will be easier with your hood already off. Disconnected battery, label and remove wires from generator, remove 2 bolts from either side of the shroud, and lift out.
-Mike
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1964 Sedan 6 volt

[Brian Anthony]

It could be caught between the crank pulley and the pulley sheet metal on the engine side of the pulley. The sheet metal could keep you from seeing it.
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1965 Double Cab
1967 Bug, Sedan
1967 Bug, Convertible

I’m not old, but I once knew a man who was alive during the Civil War, and he once knew Revolutionary War veterans.

[Cusser]

Pull the fan belt off briefly and see if noise stays or disappears. Disappears means in the fan shroud.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[tomsbuggered]

Great input, thanks

I will pull fan belt briefly first.

Stay tuned!

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[bluebus86]

I lost a bolt once in the 914 car, evidently it made its way into the heat exchanger, likely via the fan. I later found my drivers side heat would not turn off. the heater valve would not shut off even with the cable disconnected! I pulled the valve off and the pesky bolt fell out, it was blocking the spring loaded valve from closing all the way. find the bolt as it could do a good deal of damage if left in the fan, if it ends up bending the fan it can throw the balance off.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[tomsbuggered]

With fan belt off, noise persists, meaning the bolt wouldn't be in the fan shroud housing. yah?

The fan and generator are driven off the crank pulley; so that means bolt is hitting crank pulley? I pulled the front tin but no bolt. I will walk away and try again later.

First snow fall today, light but a reminder winter is near.

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[Cusser]

[tomsbuggered]

Update

Have not found bolt as f yet; have pulled rear tin off around crank pulley but no bolt. I guess I will try pulling pulley with engine in car,

Need opinions, there is no way the bolt could enter the bell housing with fan shroud and tins in place, is there?

Do not want to run the engine if there is a danger of damage to engine.

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[KPottorff]

There is no path into the bell housing section for a wayward bolt. Your bolt is probably behind the crank pulley next to the crankcase.They seem to find a way to wedge in there out of sight.

[tomsbuggered]

Thank you for your reply; I'm going to try to remove pulley in-situ. Will any pulley remover work, or is there one with a low depth profile, as there isn't a lot of room between engine and rear apron.

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[Dougy Dee]

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-7013

[Zundfolge1432]

[tomsbuggered]

Again, thanks for the responses and input, I will consider my options and buy a puller this week.

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[gimpy60]

You did have an air cleaner in place, DIDN'T YOU?
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How the hell ya spost ta fix it, ya don't even know how it works boy

[tomsbuggered]

Air cleaner was in place
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[tomsbuggered]

Well I'm back to square one with the "rattle noise" from engine. I pulled the motor and found the pressure plate collar had come loose from plate itself. Got replacement pressure plate installed and put engine back in bug.

After some timing issues I fired up the engine today. The noise is still there so I shutdown immediately.

I am second guessing my self now. Is it possible that if I did not have the air cleaner on when I dropped the bolt, would it somehow enter the intake and lodge in one of the cylinders ? When I pulled the engine, I checked for the bolt around the crank pulley, pulled the fan shroud and no bolt appeared in either location. I also pulled the carb and sent it away for throttle shaft bushing work.

When I ran the engine today, I had the clutch fully depressed, so I wonder if that eliminates any possibility that the clutch is causing the noise ? I have rough set the clutch adjustment, but probably needs additional adjustment.

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle

[tisius]

That kinda sucks, I feel your pain man.

A broken clutch arm return spring could be causing some noise; that's fairly easy to check: look on the driver's side of the car to where the clutch cable meets the clutch arm on the transmission, the return spring is wrapped around the arm and is pretty visible. While you're there, you can also check clutch adjustment .

By the way, are you sure the noise is from a bolt that fell somewhere, or could it be caused by some other defect in the engine (so not the lost bolt or clutch adjustment related)?

Bear in mind that it's difficult for us here on TheSamba.com to really effectively trouble-shoot if we don't actually hear the sound coming from your engine. May be you could have a friend with an aircooled VW come over and look at /listen to your engine? Two might know more than one
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drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much!

[KTPhil]

Depending on your available time and finances, this might be a good time to buy a cheap camera with the flexible tip, and pull the spark plugs for a look.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-62359.html

[tomsbuggered]

I'll inspect and adjust the clutch first, really don't want to go there if the pressure plate or worse has let go. The sound seems to be due to something pinging off a rotating part (flywheel, clutch plate, fan, etc)

I may try running briefly again with the fan belt off, to localize the issue. I did install thermostat, and throttle ring, and turned fan by hand after mounting the fan housing.

The camera to scope it isn't a bad idea either.

Motor is rebuilt with less than 20 miles on it so really don't want to damage it in any way !

Tom
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June 1956 VW Oval Beetle