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Peter - Belgium Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2003 Posts: 760 Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: 912 CV joints |
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Hello all,
I have just removed the engine, gearbox and CV joints on my 68 912 and while checking the CV joints they are pretty hard to move.
I'm used to see the beetle and bus CV joints which move nice and smooth back and forth or can be set under an angle easily, while with the 912 CV joints you really need to push hard to move them from complete in to complete out, or push them under an angle as they would be under teh car.
I cleaned and took apart one joint and the balls are pretty tight in the middle cage, they do not roll freely?
How is this CV supposed to feel? hard to move, or pretty easy to move?
Looking at new ones, it seems they only sell them as a full assembly of 2 joints and the axle. these joints are not available separately?
Thx!
Peter _________________ 356 Outlaw built: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=430774&highlight= |
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thesatanicmechanic Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2008 Posts: 102 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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The grease becomes waxy with age and makes the joints stiff. If they are "dry" after cleaning, they can certainly seem stiff. I'd lubricate them lightly with oil and see if they don't move more freely before condemning them. |
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Peter - Belgium Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2003 Posts: 760 Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:57 am Post subject: |
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thesatanicmechanic wrote: |
The grease becomes waxy with age and makes the joints stiff. If they are "dry" after cleaning, they can certainly seem stiff. I'd lubricate them lightly with oil and see if they don't move more freely before condemning them. |
The ones I cleaned I did apply a tiny bit of the CV joint grease on them to see if this would make them move more freely, and I can move them bit still it requires a lot of effort.
When I take a beetle one is moves easily (holding the CV joint with 2 fingers) from all in to all out position. With teh 912 ones I really need to force the outer cage either in or out...
What I do not get really is that these balls are so tight in the middle cage? they should all be rolling freely I would think, or what is teh use of having them there? and they are not doing that... they roll freely with 1 installed in teh middle of that oval slot, it seems when all 6 are in they block each-other?
thanks _________________ 356 Outlaw built: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=430774&highlight= |
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jt912 Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2006 Posts: 207 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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These can be tricky to put back together properly. There is a wrong way to do it that will result in them being very stiff. Lesson learned from experience. I would check them with one that hasn't been dismantled to make sure you have the wide and narrow spacing correct. (I think I recall that is were my problem came from). |
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Peter - Belgium Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2003 Posts: 760 Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:22 am Post subject: |
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jt912 wrote: |
These can be tricky to put back together properly. There is a wrong way to do it that will result in them being very stiff. Lesson learned from experience. I would check them with one that hasn't been dismantled to make sure you have the wide and narrow spacing correct. (I think I recall that is were my problem came from). |
indeed! found as well that you can re-assemble them, but then they are completely blocked! not moving at all then...
so re-assembled in what should be the right way, they are just stiff.
still think it is due to those bearingballs being stuck once all 6 are in, but I do not see any other way those can be installed differently so probably they are as they should be? _________________ 356 Outlaw built: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=430774&highlight= |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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thesatanicmechanic Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2008 Posts: 102 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 912 CV joints |
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Left is correct, right is not.
(had some joints on the workbench) |
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Peter - Belgium Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2003 Posts: 760 Location: Brussels - Belgium
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:04 am Post subject: Re: 912 CV joints |
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Great link and pics! thanks!
reading through the link i read:
"1. The cage opening is slightly larger on one side. The large side is the side you install the star gear from, it barely fits.
2. Before you put the ball bearings in, put the star in the outer case. Then insert the ball bearings in by twisting the star gear within the outer case to expose the bearing race opening. If the star doesn't move freely after you install each ball bearing, you've assembled it wrong. If this happens you likely have the star clocked one cog off. Take the balls out and reclock the star, moving the star one cog either direction."
so If I got it right this talks about the inner splined star and the middle cage and that these also have a specific rotation relative to each-other?
Maybe this explains why after I inserted the 6 balls, these balls seems to be blocked and not rolling anymore and why the inner star is harder to move around in the middle cage (it does move with some force, would not call it freely though).
Will need to try to take out all 6 balls again, and rotate that star with 1 psoition and see if it makes a difference!
BTW. on that #1: i did not remove the star from that inner ball carrier yet... it seemed not to work but reading this there should be a way to get that out?
THANKS for all the help! _________________ 356 Outlaw built: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=430774&highlight= |
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