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airoldspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2014
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: engine swap |
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hello! I have a 30hp 6v engine on the car but I want to put there other engine (1300cc singleport 12v).
So, my question is.. could this swap be just like "plug and play" in that bellhousing?  |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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The 12v engine should fit bell housing.... Only real problem is the the starter.... If you want to keep car 6volt you have to put proper flywheel on 1300cc engine to take 6 volt starter... The flip side is convert car to 12 volts, which means basically changing all the light bulbs and TS flasher to 12 volt and starter and generator/voltage regulator to 12 volts and probably a voltage dropping device for windshield wipers and radio...
That is the basics, somebody will come along with some more details I have not covered or left out...
Dale
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Richard/SIA
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Joined: November 15, 2015
Posts: 102
Location: No. Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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| Why do I remember having to grind out the trans to fit a 12V engine to early trans when I was a kid? |
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5475
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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I'm confused Dale, I don't see any indication of what transaxle airoldspeed is using so I'm not sure why you think a 12v flywheel will fit. The old 30 horse would be in a splitcase transaxle if all is stock.
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airoldspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2014
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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The car is from 1964 with a 30hp engine. The transmission it will be for sure stock of the car, from that chassis.
The situations is that I have a 1300 singleport that's 12v, and I want to put it there. I have also the voltage regulator and the starter (12v) the plan is to swap the engine, so I can have this 1300 in that transmission.
But I really want to know if it will it fit there without any problem, no need to strip some of the bellhousing?! |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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There is four areas ( if I remember correctly) you may have to remove about 1/16 to 3/32 of material...Takes all of half hour with rotary file in battery drill or air tools...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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Be careful grinding. Wear appropriate lung protection. grind some and test....remove and grind more. You don't want to remove too much material.
But yes...its not hard. |
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:59 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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1966 1300 engines were 6 volt.
1964 engines were 40 hp.
A 66 1300 with a stock 6v flywheel would directy fit a 64 transaxle and starter
If the 66 1300 has been upgraded to 12v it might or might not have a 12v flywheel. A 6 volt starter will last indefinitely on 12v |
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ALB
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Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:07 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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If you're going to grind it, make sure there is a fire extinguisher handy; hitting a steel nut or stud with all that magnesium dust around can be trouble! You can also push the engine in until it touches, use a wrench on the crank pulley nut to turn it back and forth a couple of times, push it in further, etc until it clears. It takes longer but there's no danger of setting yourself on fire...
As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
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airoldspeed
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Joined: July 10, 2014
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:26 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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This is the 1300 engine:
Can it be just put it straight there without grind something.. or I have to messuring the flywheel size to know?
It appears like an early 1300 engine..can it be easy for that to put there!? The fact that I have to grind.. it kills me, I really dont wanted to do that  |
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5475
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:06 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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Your 1300 looks like a 6 volt engine to me. It has the voltage regulator that attaches the the generator instead of separately mounted. It may still have the original 180mm flywheel on it too, in which case it would be a bolt in swap with no grinding required.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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| Quote: |
| Can it be just put it straight there without grind something.. or I have to messuring the flywheel size to know? |
Measure the flywheel. It will take 30 seconds. If its about 7" in diameter then you are good to go. Just over 7 3/4" and you need to grind. |
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BL3Manx
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Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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Count the teeth on the flywheels, if there are 109 teeth on both, the 1300 will go right in.
If there are 130 teeth on the 1300 flywheel, you'll need a starter to match(either 12v or 6v for a 200mm flywheel), probably a different starter bushing in the bellhousing and will likely need to clearance for the flywheel |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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Yeah count the teeth.... Report back...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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| Why does a tape measure seem so much more simple to me..... |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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| jspbtown wrote: |
| Why does a tape measure seem so much more simple to me..... |
If one is going by the 180mm and 200mm measurement, its clutch size (working surface) and not true diameter of flywheel.... But yeah a tape could tell which is larger but you need to measure accurately becasue difference is relatively small...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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airoldspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2014
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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Well I have some measures of the flywheel.. 185mm inside and 275mm outside(all the surface) .. can this measures sizes define anything?!
I will have some photo to count the teeth for more information. |
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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| Just count the teeth |
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airoldspeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2014
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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130 teeth's!
So, lets resume...
- 1964 chassis with 30hp 6v engine.
- Want to swap to one 1300cc 12v engine
- The 1300cc 12v engine flywheel have: 185mm inside measure and 130 teeth's.
(The car and the 1300cc 12v engine is european).
Can this be a swap just "plug and play"?!
No need to grinding the bellhousing to fit?.
Last edited by airoldspeed on Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: Re: engine swap |
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The only way to do it "plug and play" with what you have is to take the flywheels off both engines and install the 109 tooth flywheel on the 1300. If you do that, the 1300 will bolt directly in place of the 1964 engine with no changing the starter or grinding of the bellhousing.
The one drawback is that it will also reduce the diameter of the clutch friction disc from 200mm to 180mm and make the clutch more prone to slip. You should ensure you have a new friction disc, a good pressure plate and the face of the 109 tooth flywheel is perfect.
To change the flywheel, you can have a shop do it or buy one of these tools and a cheap torque wrench and do it yourself
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-16-9602
If you do the job yourself, make sure you have a repair manual and also use a clutch alignment tool
http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp?search=clutch+alignment+tool&Submit=
If you buy a different flywheel, this is a special flywheel with 109 teeth which would bolt straight into your car and which would use the stronger 200mm clutch.
http://www.mofoco.com/item/MOFOCO_200MM_6VOLT_STOCK_RESURFACED_GERMAN_FLYWHEEL/738/c131
| airoldspeed wrote: |
- 1964 chassis with 36hp 6v engine.
(The car and the 1300cc 12v engine is european).
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The 1964 1200 was 40hp SAE (American system), 34hp DIN (German system)
The 1966 1300 as 50hp SAE , 40hp DIN |
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