My 412 these days..

[raygreenwood]

[titan3c]

If you happen to have a owners manual that comes with the sedan you will see that the muffler is a left exhaust. Also look on page 18 of the Haynes Manual. Bob

[Lars S]

Yes looking into old broschures the most common seems to be the coupe tailpipe to the left and the Variant to the right..has anyone any idea why?
Seem to remember some difference in the Eber tailpipe also...this due to where the air intake to the engine (and heating system) is; under the rear window on the coupe and at the top of the rear fenders on the Variant...

Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[raygreenwood]

[raygreenwood]

[Lars S]

I have always connected the end exit muffler with the introduction of the 1.7l type 2(bus)...believing it was only factory fitted to buses...but that can wery well be wrong since an early bus parts manual shows a center exit left pointing tailpipe for the -72 1.7 bus.

Edit:
Possibly the end exit muffler was introduced (-75?) with the 2.0 bus engine...

Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[titan3c]

There is a left side exhaust muffler on classifieds(as mentioned before) complete with the damphner, and picture of the part number and interestingly stamped on the muffler it says for Type 4 LE Variant. Bob

[ClassicCamper]

So, I'm now at odds with Maaco. Each time there is an issue (Code for we are going to up the price). I'd like to share with some rough photos of the work they completed. I'm seriously disappointed with them Perhaps, some forum advice (hold off on telling me not to go to Maaco). My overall cost is at 2,300 and rising. Listen, I'm not a painter, but am a rebuilder. If someone can give me some help on how to address the siuation, I'd be forever in you debt.

Here are some before pictures

Here is thier progress thay I have thus far:

I did not expect a 10K paint jon, but now I'm screwd. Aside from my folder full of pnotos of car, i am going down with the original 'pre paint' photos. I've been restoring VWs for 30 years and never expecred such shoddy work.

Here are the after paint photos:

Cllearly a poor paint job. Any suggerions on how to address this with them tomorrow would be a grear help. - Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

I will poat in the am. Too late tonight. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks Ray!
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Ok...here is my take on it. And a couple of questions:

1. I hope you did not take that home before addressing the issues with the paint shop

2. Was this done with the combination type system where the clear coat rises to the top as compared to a separate clear-coat? If so....some f these defects are part of the risks of that system and why I hate using it.

In the paint system where clear coat and base coat are applied at one package/layer....you have to have excellent bodywork and priming work, an excellently skilled painter with top notch equipment....and best of ll...a squeaky clean dust free paint shop....WITH correct environmental controls for temperature and humidity.

Many auto painters say they love this all in one paint system because it so easy and takes part less time.

However....because it puts a clear coat on all at one time...you do not get a second chance...to sand orange peel, shave drips with a drip shaver or wet sand inconsistencies in the color coat or remove dust specs during wet sanding...before the final clear coat goes on.


There are four main issues...three of which should not be allowed at all. Cheap paint jobs are cheap...not because they are bad but because they have less labor involved...and may use cheaper materials....and due to less prep involved...may last a lot shorter lifespan.

But outside of the car being beat up/not straight/or not clean enough for 20 years of adhesion.....the paint coat itself should be smooth, correctly done and mechanically sound no matter who painted it.

What I see:

1. Drips:....no excuse for these unless they are using the all in one system (base and clearcoat combined). Typically, even budget shops will use paint drip sanding blocks to quickly level runs and drips right after the paint has set.

Cheap $25 tools http://search.eastwood.com/auto/Paint%20Drip%20Shaver

But 7 out of 10 times you probably need to wet sand as well.

2. I see dust or debris specs. Same issue. No excuse. They should have gotten those out.

3. I saw one picture that looked like an air hose drag mark. No excuse.

4. This one may or may not be your problem. I know you did a lot of your own prep. I do not know what your agreement was for what they would do for any other bodywork or for priming work or for sanding glaze, filling imperfections etc.

Some of those look like scratches either in the primer or scratches left in bondo filler that are under the paint...low spots.

Some of these may have been able to be worked with...if they had used a "fill primer"...which is a primer that expands as it dries...maybe .001" to .002" to fill fine sanding scratches in body filler.

If this does not have a clearcoat on it....I would take it back and demand that the drips and debris are sanded out. Even if it does have a clearcoat on it..depending on paint type you may be al to just sand that all off down to color coat. Clean up he drips and grooves and then have one more basic color coat put on. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

As I wait nervously for the paint to finish, it's time to address the seats. Early on, I made purchased a set of front seats. Saved a while to get them. It turns out they are for a 4 ddoor sedan. I asked the seller (name witheld) specifically if seats are for a wagon. (Even sent me pics of the 'donor car').

So, now I'm faced with the challenge of what to do next. I read in one of the posts that the back resr tilt forward mechanism is transferrable. I'm hoping it is true. It just looks a little complicated. However, I took this journey with my car and am determined to restore it.

One thing that I learned is that the 411 seat hold down is a thinner diameter than the 412. However, the pieces are transferrable.

Suggestions or anyone selling 412 wagon seats?

Bottoms look similar:

Also, the original tilt back 412 seat needs a cable that controls back rest moving forward.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Typically the cable breaks at one of the ends. If you are willing to get under the seat cover to get to the cable you could replace it with a fabricated replacement wire.

Also...I have...somewhere in a box...the knob, chain drive and internal cogged tooth mechanism from a pair of reclining seats. The mounting points are already in the seats.

Also I think either Lars or someone else noted...that in the short term...there is a hidden catch on the non-reclining seats to make them recline when needed.

I agonized over the effort and cost re-covering and restoration of my seats for years. The type 4 seats are.... involved...compared to virtually any of the other ACVW seats. I have four of them....all of the covers and padding are totallly shot. I sat in them for 300k+ miles.

I want to stay stock...and they are just about the best ACVW stock seats...but with all of the other items I need to restore in this car....I have come to the conclusion that if I could get quality aftermarket seats in that are high quality...and at least 85-90% close to the originals...and mount the original head rest....that would be ideal.

I contacted ProCar a few years back about seat measurements and custom fabric inserts (which they will do). I have the CAD print somewhere but from the print and my measurements...I can mount the ProcCar 90 seats on the 411/412 seat slider sled...and keep the original plastic skirt and knobs.....and one would be hard pressed to tell it from factory.

Using the original head rests would mean taking the cover off of the Procar 90 seats and re-spacing the two uprights a little. Small welding...no big deal....as I would be removing the covers anyway to install seat heaters.

So that is an option to think about as well.

Here is the Pro-90 seat.

http://procarbyscat.com/seats/Pro-90

The guys at Pro-Car noted that if say...you want a specific color of fabric insert instead of all vinyl....if you send yard goods to them they will have it stitched in at the factory. The factory is off continent so the round trip on a custom insert seat is about 6 weeks as its a non-stock item.

This is view of an insert seat from the other side
http://procarbyscat.com/seat/80-1300-90l

Here is a dimension sketch

Also here is the "generic" basic mount for the procar seat. Its a basic bolt-up to the seat with four bolts and theem bolt to a car floor. this would bolt right into many new watercooled VW's

They have several versions of this including ratcheting sliders.....but....since the Pro-90 seat has these four basic bolt points to its seat pan...I can just as easily make plate brackets to bolt it to the existing slider bracket of the 412.

You can see in the diagrams how easy it would be to separate the lower seat spring assembly from the carrier rack. It should not be a big issue to bolt a Procar seat to the stock rack and rails...and that way the skirting and sliding knobs stay the same. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Ray, I really appreciate your feedback. Your replies always help and keep me motivated.

My goal this round is to see if I can still make stock seats from what I have.

So, I dismantled both seatbacks and here is the 411 seat back:

It has the chain and the back rest adjustment dial. This doesn't exist on my 412 seat. Either the PO's removed the dial, chain, etc. or it never came with my car.

Here is my rusty 412 seat back with the all important back rest tilt lever and the respective cable:

Here is my plan: Cut off the seat tilt lever and tack weld it to the donor 411 seat back. This way, I have a forward tilt AND the backrest adjustment, which didn't exist on my 412. (I can see the gears, etc in my old seatback, which leads me to think perhaps my 412 had that knob? Hmmm.

So, I sound real legit about tack welding it on, etc., but I can't weld. So, hopefully and old pal who is an iron worker can help with the seat mech.

Finally, Ray... I combed thru the diagrams as to where/how the backrest release cable connects. PO literally tied it around the bar under the seat. Beacause this bar moves forward and back, I assume that allows seat to tilt.

Just curious how it affixes to that bar. Certainly VW just didn't just tie it on. Thanks all. Wish me luck on my welding vision quest. Suggestions welcome.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

As far as I am familiar with...all of the 411 and 412 seat backs....except for POSSIBLY....some of the very early lowback/non-headrest versions on 411.....had the same seatback frame.

If they were 4 door.....they did not have tilting seats....but it can be added. I have only seen one without the recline option....but under the skin it was the same FRAME.m.just without the gears, chain or knob installed.....meaning you can install them.

The recline gears and chains should install right into your 412 seat back frame......or.....just look at the mounting points and see if you can swap the whole seat back to the bottom seat. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

[ClassicCamper]

Okay, I'm getting ready to clean the old grease off of the latching mechanisms (trunk / lift gate / doors, etc.). Can I get some recommendations as to what lubricant makes best sense considering the climate in NJ.

Thanks -R
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

For the cable use ATF. For the latch use a non oil based silicone lube. Look for a product callep Sil-glyde. NAPA used to carry it. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Great. Bought it (Sil-Glyde) online for $14.98 from NAPA. Thanks!
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

Need some quick assistance re: front seats. Hard to tell from diagram.

1) Where shoud the seat back adjuster be oriented? Facing E- brake or the door itself?

2) Same question applies to seat forward tilt lever on side of backrest?

3) Where should the 2 adjustment levers that stick out of the plastic bottom skirt (on seat bottom) face? Again, toward e brake or face car door?

Ugh....Need some good karma.

Thanks all!
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert