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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico found |
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Does anyone have any experience travelling in Sinaloa? I have been wanting to take my family on a Westy trip thru Mexico to the Gulf of California but these endless stories are making me change my mind.
Poor guys...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/van-australian-surfers-missing-mexico-dean-lucas-adam-coleman/
MEXICO CITY - Friends of two Australian tourists missing for more than a week in Mexico are looking to work with authorities in determining what happened to the men following a report that their burned van may have been found with two bodies inside in the drug gang-plagued state of Sinaloa, one of the friends said Sunday.
Dean Lucas and Adam Coleman were traveling from Edmonton, Alberta, to Mexico and had been scheduled to arrive on Nov. 21 in the city of Guadalajara but failed to appear, Coleman's girlfriend, Andrea Gomez, told The Associated Press from Guadalajara.
Dean Lucas and Adam Coleman
Dean Lucas, left, and Adam Coleman, in photos taken from a GoFundMe page set up by a family friend GOFUNDME USER KAYE MAYTUM
The families of the two men issued a statement through Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade saying they were aware of reports that the men had gone missing during a surfing trip to Mexico.
The families added that they were aware Mexican officials had located the van the men were using. The statement said "a tragic event has occurred."
In a statement posted to a GoFundMe page set up for the families by user Kaye Maytum, the family said: "They hold deep fears for the safety of their sons but stress that they are still waiting for details to be confirmed."
Officials in Sinaloa declined to comment about the matter.
Gomez initially said that she and Lucas' partner, Josie Cox, would go to the Sinaloa capital of Culiacan on Monday with items that could provide DNA for testing to see if the two bodies reportedly found inside the burned van were the Australians. Gomez said that Cox arrived in Mexico on Sunday with Lucas' dental records and that Gomez had "pieces of dreadlocks" given to her by Coleman.
"Everything points to it being them because the van matches; it had a bicycle. But nothing is confirmed yet," Gomez said.
She later said that she and Cox would go first to Mexico City to contact the Australian Embassy rather than go to Sinaloa.
A statement from the Australian foreign ministry said consular officials were working with Mexican authorities to locate the two men.
The missing Australians who were driving Cox's van had been scheduled meet Gomez in Guadalajara, she said. She said she and Cox put out an alert on social media after reporting the men missing.
Sinaloa, home of the powerful cartel led by fugitive drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, stretches down Mexico's Pacific coast and would be on the route of most road trips to Guadalajara from western Canada.
"They were hurrying to get here; that's why they were traveling at night," she said. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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I have a friend whose parents were murdered in Mexico & another who was abducted & released after cleaning out his bank account (he readily gave them password info hoping they'd release him, fortunately they did). I personally have no desire to go to an area where the only thing more murderous than the cartels is the federales. Traveling with a nice shiny anything is just going to draw some unwanted attention. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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The days of safe travel are simply over down there. There's no reason to even think twice or even muster opinions. When ANY country's government decides that violent crime is acceptable- that's when you simply don't go there. Don't support their tourism, don't support their trade, and especially don't go back to preach to them. Unless there are at least four of their prisoner's being held here for our President to trade for you- don't go there. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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hitest wrote: |
When ANY country's government decides that violent crime is acceptable- |
Actually, the opposite is true. Prior to 2006, the Mexican government turned a blind eye to the actions of the drug cartels, or were corruptly supporting them.
After 2006, the Mexican government declared war on the drug cartels. Their aim wasn't to stop drug trafficking, it was to crush the cartels.
The overwhelming majority of the deaths in this war are drug gang members, followed by police and military. The number of tourists killed in this war is trivial.
The article said the two Aussies were travelling at night. One of the rules for tourists is don't drive at night. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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ALLWAGONS Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000 Posts: 4189 Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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I am Mexican, and I WOULD NOT travel through Mexico by car. back in the day, I drove a '66 bus, a '64 type 34 a '56 oval and a couple of '71 buses with no problem or fear. Things have changed in Mexico. Whether it is the Cartels, gangs or the government it is not safe. There is safety in numbers and your chances of becoming a target are less if you travel by day and with others. I feel sorry for those tourists as Mexico has some awesome and beautiful places to visit. It is funny how no matter how remote the place is, you will always find an American or Gringo as they are called. _________________ I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
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Malokin Martin Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007 Posts: 3099 Location: E-burg
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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The amount of fear mongering that is spread by would be travelers keeps the fun places empty and fun.
Does the fact that you own a supremely unsafe, outdated 50 year old foreign car keep you from driving/enjoying your aircooled Volkswagen daily?
1.) Learn the language/customs.
2.) Don't be a dick.
3.) Use common sense.
Those are the rules. If you don't want something stolen, don't take it to Mexico. I've done a huge amount of solo travel down south, both in a car and just with a backpack, and I still have all my fingers and toes.
Last edited by Malokin Martin on Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13278 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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how long ago? The last 5 or so years have been extremely bad - I'm with Martin, no way I'd venture past the tourist areas nowadays. Locals get kidnapped, held for ransom, and killed. In Sinaloa, it's illegal for locals to even report on the violence _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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Erik G wrote: |
how long ago? The last 5 or so years have been extremely bad |
Three years ago I spent 5 months south of the Rio Grande driving around in my Beetle. My route did include Sinaloa in Mexico as well as Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador
The only incidents were:
1) At a police/military road check somewhere between Mexico City and Acapulco, the cops threatened to seize my car if their checks showed my car's engine number wasn't correct for my car. In Mex, your engine number is on your title, so they use that to steal money from drivers. My title has no engine number so I laughed at their feeble attempt and told them to phone Germany to find out the engine number.
2) One evening while walking in Guatemala City, a drunk/drugged prostitute was yelling something at me from across the street.
3) Traffic cops in Guatemala City pulled me over for DWG (driving while gringo). Lucky for me I was being escorted by a friend and her mother. They got in the cop's face and began RANTING big time. It was a thing of beauty to watch them. The cops wisely backed off. In Latin culture it's quite acceptable for women to scream at cops and other officials.
Don't drive at night. Farmers have poorly constructed fences and livestock wander onto the highway. I've seen horses, oxen, pigs, goats, and cows as roadkill. If you kill a cow, you have to pay the farmer. Few Mexicans drive at night for this reason so roads are empty. This makes it good hunting for the banditos. At least that's what "they say". I've never seen a bandito, other than the ones in uniform.
If you have car troubles do your best effort to get to a Pemex gas station. Don't pull off the road to spend the night.
While on the highway, follow all the traffic rules like you would at home, even though Mexicans violate all the rules. The traffic cops will let a Mexican go for going 120k/h in a 100 zone, but he'll pull you over for going 105. Racial profiling is used there except that there, the gringo is the target minority.
In your Westy, stay at RV parks. There are a lot of them and they are full of retired Americans and Canadians. If you stay at a motel or hotel, verify secure parking.
Leave your useless jewelry at home. You don't need your wedding ring or that gold chain around your neck.
Convert your $ into pesos at the Mexican banks as you need. Do not spend US$, it shows you are a travelling novice.
Dealing with the cops. The worst cops in Mexico are the Transito, or traffic cop. Don't be nervous when they pull you over, their powers are limited. It is illegal for them to ask you to get out of the car. They only want money from you. Play the game. When they make up the infraction they'll tell you the fine. It will be high. Apologize and tell them you don't have that kind of money. Continue the negotiation until it is 100-150 pesos. This is the going rate, and my Mexican friends tell me to never pay more. Otherwise they have a harder time paying the going rate. Once you have the "fine" negotiated, you ask the cop if he can do you a favour. Ask if he can take the fine to the police station for you. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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enjoyther1de Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2010 Posts: 1279 Location: chino,ca
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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I say we take over Mexico... Make it awesome...
But seriously, does anybody think we couldn't end the cartels tomorrow if we really wanted to? Our government makes way too much money to shut them down. Viva mehico... _________________ HBB took me to BBV. |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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Looks like they caught the banditos:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/mexico-arrests-3-alleged-drug-dealers-assumed-slaying-213810141.html
Unfortunately the two Aussies broke the rules badly and died from it. Poor route planning too. Driving all the way down the Baja en route to Guadalajara is a pretty dumb route. Then taking the ferry from La Paz to Los Mochis just wastes time when you're in a rush to get somewhere. The article says they landed off the ferry at 10:30 pm. They should have stayed the night in Los Mochis, but they didn't. From where they were robbed, it surely was well past midnight. That's even worse than driving in the late evening.
While they don't have the death penalty in Mexico, they also don't have parole. Likely the killers will get a sentence up in the triple digits. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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crukab Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002 Posts: 6116 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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Back in the earlie 1980s we lived in Boulder Co., a Prof from CU Boulder went to Mexico for research,next thing you know, he is "Missing", and the local Police Cheif is driving his truck around, I guess things have not changed much.....
Don't drive at night, WTF is that ?? _________________ Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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It's all a risk and that's still low for foreign travelers. However, the odds mean nothing if you're the one compromised.
In addition to other recommendations, pass through and keep well clear of border towns and locate a secure camping spot well before dusk.
Last, there are many Vw blogs and sites that talk about Mex. traveling -- tips, do's and don't's, insurance, money exchange, etc.
For a first time I'd recommend going with others in a caravan if possible until you become familiar. |
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TrulyVintage Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008 Posts: 207 Location: Direct Enclosed Transporter
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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WestyBob wrote: |
It's all a risk and that's still low for foreign travelers. However, the odds mean nothing if you're the one compromised.
In addition to other recommendations, pass through and keep well clear of border towns and locate a secure camping spot well before dusk.
Last, there are many Vw blogs and sites that talk about Mex. traveling -- tips, do's and don't's, insurance, money exchange, etc.
For a first time I'd recommend going with others in a caravan if possible until you become familiar. |
Have you ever traveled by vehicle into Mexico ?
Don't speak of what you don't know personally about if you have not
experienced it firsthand ...
" Low risk " is not synonymous with " Death " _________________ Jim is on the road @ http://www.trulyvintagetrailers.citymax.com/trulyvintage-feedback.html |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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TrulyVintage wrote: |
WestyBob wrote: |
It's all a risk and that's still low for foreign travelers. However, the odds mean nothing if you're the one compromised.
In addition to other recommendations, pass through and keep well clear of border towns and locate a secure camping spot well before dusk.
Last, there are many Vw blogs and sites that talk about Mex. traveling -- tips, do's and don't's, insurance, money exchange, etc.
For a first time I'd recommend going with others in a caravan if possible until you become familiar. |
Have you ever traveled by vehicle into Mexico ? |
When I read Westybob's reply, it was pretty clear to me he's traveled in Mexico.
To the OP, border towns are shitholes. I guarantee, 15 seconds after leaving Mex customs, you will be regretting going into Mexico. That feeling will pass.
To go to Sinaloa, take I19 south from Tucson AZ. Enter Mex at Nogales. Before you cross the border, you've got a lot of things to do in Nogales AZ. Buy supplies at the grocery store, convert some cash, get insurance for your Westy. If you see any motorhomes with retired gringos, approach them and ask if they're heading south. If so ask if you can tag along behind them. 21km south of the border is where you have to buy the permit for your car and your tourist visas. They will want photocopies of everything. Your car's registration, your passport, driver's licence. This takes time so be patient. Plan to be across the border before lunch, then expect it to take the rest of the day to get to Hermosillo. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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TrulyVintage Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008 Posts: 207 Location: Direct Enclosed Transporter
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:39 am Post subject: You have no rights |
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Whether you have American or Canadian citizenship - you have no rights in Mexico.
In the last (3) years - things have changed dramatically.
Former US serviceman who served going back as far as Vietnam have been deported back to Mexico - some on misdemeanor violations - because they
never bothered to obtain legal US Citizenship.
Their choice often is to serve the Cartels or die.
The increase in border & interior violence is a direct result of the " talents "
of some of these unfortunate deportees.
As the drug trade has been squeezed - revenue has shifted to kidnapping & robbery & sometimes death.
You have no rights when you cross the border.
I have been stopped while driving in Mexico - more than once.
I have paid small bribes - I have been shaken down.
If an authority asks for your drivers license and/or passport
and does not return it - you are screwed.
I would NEVER laugh at an authority in Mexico. ...
Arrogance will land you in hot water & cost you potentially your life.
If I want to gamble I go to a casino.
Not to Mexico where the house odds are overwemingly stacked
against you .... _________________ Jim is on the road @ http://www.trulyvintagetrailers.citymax.com/trulyvintage-feedback.html |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:50 am Post subject: Re: You have no rights |
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TrulyVintage wrote: |
Former US serviceman who served going back as far as Vietnam have been deported back to Mexico - some on misdemeanor violations - because they
never bothered to obtain legal US Citizenship.
Their choice often is to serve the Cartels or die.
The increase in border & interior violence is a direct result of the " talents "
of some of these unfortunate deportees.
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Three years ago when I was in Torreon, I needed some welding to the new POS Bugpack mufflers on my car. I found a small dirt muffler shop to do the work. Over the next hour or so, I got to know the guy doing the work. He told me he used to be a cop working for the Chihuahua State Police. I thought it was strange that he would go from a good job like that to working in the dirt with a torch. He explained that one day someone from the drug cartels approached him and said that he now worked for them as their mole in the police force. If he didn't supply them with information, they would kill him. So he quit! No longer having access to police info, no reason to kill him.
I bet some of those unfortunate deportees you mentioned went willingly to the cartels. They pay very well.
TrulyVintage wrote: |
If an authority asks for your drivers license and/or passport
and does not return it - you are screwed. |
I've driven deep into Mexico at least 10 times in the last 25 years. Flown in at least that many too. The only times I have been asked for my passport is when getting the tourist visa from Mexican immigration, and at the bank when converting foreign currency. Traffic cops don't ask for it.
If a traffic cop asks for your driver's licence, don't give it to him. Show it, but don't let go of it. I know many people who do this. The legitimate reason they want your licence is to hold it ransom for the traffic fine. They give you a ticket and take your licence to the police station. When you pay the fine, you get your licence back. Or just pay the guy $10-15 on the side of the road and be on your way. Even if they take your licence, how does this mean "you are screwed"? _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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vdubyah73 Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2003 Posts: 2541 Location: somewhere in Texas, my house has wheels
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: Re: You have no rights |
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TrulyVintage wrote: |
Whether you have American or Canadian citizenship - you have no rights in Mexico.
In the last (3) years - things have changed dramatically.
Former US serviceman who served going back as far as Vietnam have been deported back to Mexico - some on misdemeanor violations - because they
never bothered to obtain legal US Citizenship.
: |
I find this hard to believe. I was active duty in the late 70's Serving 6 years in the US Military was a direct path to citizenship.
Bill _________________ burning down the house
73 bounty hunter, sold.
'77 transporter, junked had crotch rot.
Dubless, but have a CPR built stroker waiting for a new to me Beetle
'93 Fleetwood Bounder 34' |
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TrulyVintage Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008 Posts: 207 Location: Direct Enclosed Transporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: You have no rights |
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vdubyah73 wrote: |
TrulyVintage wrote: |
Whether you have American or Canadian citizenship - you have no rights in Mexico.
In the last (3) years - things have changed dramatically.
Former US serviceman who served going back as far as Vietnam have been deported back to Mexico - some on misdemeanor violations - because they
never bothered to obtain legal US Citizenship.
: |
I find this hard to believe. I was active duty in the late 70's Serving 6 years in the US Military was a direct path to citizenship.
Bill |
Barstow, CA ..
Towing business owner I know has a brother who served in Vietnam.
Deported in 2011 for a misdeameanor in CA back in 1984.
He could either work for the Cartel or die.
He chose to go to South America w/ the money his brother sent him from Barstow.
Both had come to CA as children - brother who served never sought legal citizenship.
This is no rumor - no BS.
This is ongoing & has been for many years. _________________ Jim is on the road @ http://www.trulyvintagetrailers.citymax.com/trulyvintage-feedback.html
Last edited by TrulyVintage on Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TrulyVintage Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008 Posts: 207 Location: Direct Enclosed Transporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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" If a traffic cop asks for your driver's licence, don't give it to him. Show it, but don't let go of it. I know many people who do this. The legitimate reason they want your licence is to hold it ransom for the traffic fine. They give you a ticket and take your licence to the police station. When you pay the fine, you get your licence back. Or just pay the guy $10-15 on the side of the road and be on your way. Even if they take your licence, how does this mean "you are screwed"? "
Again ...
Mexico is a foreign country.
It is NOT Canada or the United States.
Take a LONG HARD LOOK at the image in first post on this thread.
Those two guys are dead.
What happened to them was " illegal ".
Talking about what is " illegal " for an enforcement officer to do
in Mexico when you are NOT a citizen and are being detained
is ....
IF you are asked to give your driver's license and/or passport,
if you don't comply, you are subject to arrest.
IF you don't pay a suitable bribe to the roadside cop,
you pay a larger bribe at the station and more money
the further things go.
Arrongance & the illusion you have rights in Mexico is what
gets people shot - killed - buried in a shallow grave.
If you want to keep your " rights " then stay in your country.
They don't follow you across the border. _________________ Jim is on the road @ http://www.trulyvintagetrailers.citymax.com/trulyvintage-feedback.html |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Torched van of Australian surfers missing in Mexico foun |
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TrulyVintage wrote: |
Take a LONG HARD LOOK at the image in first post on this thread.
Those two guys are dead.
What happened to them was " illegal ". |
What does one's civil rights have to do with a robbery and murder? Do you think if they were in the US this could never happen?
What about the 14 people murdered in San Bernardino two weeks ago. Did their "rights" help them?
TrulyVintage wrote: |
Talking about what is " illegal " for an enforcement officer to do in Mexico when you are NOT a citizen and are being detained is ....
IF you are asked to give your driver's license and/or passport, if you don't comply, you are subject to arrest. |
False. The Transito police do not have the power to arrest anyone. Mexican or foreigners alike.
TrulyVintage wrote: |
IF you don't pay a suitable bribe to the roadside cop, you pay a larger bribe at the station and more money the further things go. |
Not gonna happen. Since the Transito can't arrest you, you can't be taken to the police station. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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