Author |
Message |
chachi Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 858 Location: the weeds
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: I fear the automatic |
|
|
we are considering upgrading to a vanagon with more amenities and while browsing, automatic transmission vanagons come up and i just don't even consider them. my wife has no problem with them and asked me, why do you want a manual so bad? to which i replied, uh cause...i like them better...? but what are the realities of the automatic? somebody convince me that they're actually great. _________________ '74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oceanair Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2013 Posts: 720 Location: Victoria, BC
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
So we found the perfect van last Spring, but, it was an automatic which was almost a deal breaker. Turns out, we love it and our 2 friends who have manual trans here love it too. Shifts very smoothly, makes city driving a breeze. The only limit seems to be speed on the highway. Limit to 70mph because it's a 3 speed. In my experience, that is plenty fast enough for a stock van.
I say go for it and enjoy. We did and have no regrets at all. Also, no clutch to replace! They are very, very strong. Change the fluid and never look back. _________________ 84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
Probably more dependable all around than a stick and much more pleasant if you are doing stop and go driving. The manual shines on the highway more because it gives a bit better gas mileage than for any other reason. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tobias Duncan Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1388 Location: Taos NM
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
I have one of each.
Do not feat the automatic. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
Have no Fear.
The 3 speed automatics are a tough trans--
IF They Were Maintained-- the one & only caveat. _________________ T.K. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dana Champion Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 633 Location: Ventura County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
This subject has been discussed. Check the posts for more info....
I have a '88 automatic Westfalia. I love it. I've had several manual Vanagon Westfalias, and busses over the past forty years. I didn't like the auto either just because. When I got a sweet deal on a '73 bus back in '93, my opinion changed.
As already stated, freeway rpms are higher with the 3 speed auto as opposed to the 4 speed manual.
That morning cup of coffee sure is more enjoyable when I'm not wrestling the stick !
Go drive an auto.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
chachi Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 858 Location: the weeds
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
Dana Champion wrote: |
That morning cup of coffee sure is more enjoyable when I'm not wrestling the stick ! |
now this, this speaks to me. _________________ '74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6234 Location: Portland OR
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
I had the same concern when looking for my last van. I drove an auto and asked around and got the same type of answers. After driving it now for 9 years, I don't regret the choice one bit. Driving is more enjoyable and reliability has not been an issue. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
The wife's summer vehicle is a 1991 Automatic Carat. Great car even on the highway.
However, I love my 1985 Westy manual too |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1917 Location: Austin, TX
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
My response here isn't meant to be disparaging to any manual transmission vans or manual transmission enthusiasts, but it wouldn't take too much casual research on the Samba to see the trend:
-Vanagon manual transmissions are becoming scarce at a much faster rate than automatics;
-Vanagon manual transmissions require a great deal more skill, special tools, and higher cost consumables to rebuild properly;
-Vanagon manual transmissions, including shift linkages and clutches, are more complex, and present a higher maintenance challenge;
-Vanagon automatic transmissions obviously demand less of the driver to operate--good for beverage quaffing or for the spouse who does not like manual transmissions;
-Vanagon automatic transmissions are extremely simple and easy to rebuild;
-Vanagon automatic transmissions, when considering the overall service life between rebuilds, are more robust than manuals, all things considered;
-the entire 010/087/089/090 family of transaxles lends a vast amount of parts to the rebuild of the Vanagon 090 automatic, which includes millions of cars... not so sure if there are nearly as many junkyard saviors from the VW/Audi family out there for manual transmissions;
-crack open a Bentley manual and count the pages for the automatic section... and then count the pages for the manual section... this should be a good diagnostic of the higher complexity and maintenance overhead for the lifetime of a manual transmission.
All those factors above are pretty easily verifiable. In terms of subjective feedback, all I can say is that the automatic feels right for the Vanagon. The driving experience with the auto is wonderful--part of what makes these vans so fun to drive--and if I really want to manually shift, I still can with an automatic (and I did so extensively during mountain driving this summer).
kourt
Last edited by kourt on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:09 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Weezyissuperfast Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2014 Posts: 106 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
I felt the same way when I was first looking for a van. My Subaru is a manual. I did not want an automatic, but I found a deal that I couldn't pass up. Really it isn't a big deal for me anymore. I like the way it drives, especially in traffic (big deal here in Seattle). Plus, my wife likes driving it, which helps keep her excited about keeping it around.
The lack of a fourth gear is a bit annoying on the freeway, since I put a Subie engine in, but in reality I don't need to be going over 70 in my van. You could always put a taller final drive gear ratio in to help that if it became an issue. Lastly, the points made above about availability and ease of rebuild are important considerations. Good luck. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Abelabelabel Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014 Posts: 336 Location: Santa Ana, CA
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
My two cents.
I own one of each too. Both on tin top vanagons.
**edit** both stock 2.1 waterboxer.
The automatic is slow to start but very pleasant and allows for more precise moves: i.e. parallel parking. It's nice not having to plop my foot on the break and the gas pedal at the same time when doing some specific parking on any type of incline. Also, better if you like being a distracted driver. coffee/phone/pets on the lap. It also feels beefy, and I like how it sounds with the whuuuuuuuuuurrrrr.
The Manual makes me feel like I know how to drive, and feels fast even though it's not. It also forces me to be a more focused driver, and therefore I feel a little more connected to the driving experience, which I also enjoy a helluva lot. Being able to place my hand on the shifter and actually feel a little bit of the vibrations and torque coming from the drive-train is nice. It's a challenge to make driving smooth, which is fun! Except when it's not. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
I've driven manual trans cars for almost 30 years. I love them in sportscars! That being said...
Another vote for "Autos in Vanagons/Westys are great!" I purposefully sought out an auto Weekender when I finally felt that I understood enough about Vanagons to buy one. Over 2 years later (plus a 1.8T engine ) and not one iota of regret.
Many threads here with lots of praise for the auto trans.
Way more relaxed on long cruises in both the hills and in the city.
Drop the RPMs (if you want) with larger wheels/tires or a different ring & pinion (3.73 for WBX up to 120 HP... 3.27 for 150+ HP).
Save the manual trans for your Syncro or that Porsche in your garage . _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
I've driven the Hana highway in both manual and automatic Vanagons. I prefer the manual for that road. Only because of the engine braking. The many curves and changes of speed make the manual a faster car to drive for that road. The automatic doesn't slow down fast enough when you take your foot off the pedal.
Aloha
tp |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7877 Location: Arizona
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: Re: I fear the automatic |
|
|
I've brought up engine braking here many times, when guys start yacking about burning up their brakes prematurely.
Big No-No here in Vanagonland.
Engine braking is real hard on the wimpy
VW driveline.
It short lives the engine, trans, axles, wheel bearings.
No kidding.
Every stick vehicle I've ever owned from Mopeds, semi's, Bugs, any assorted other cars, trucks & bikes all have used the engine braking feature to save brakes.
Can't do that with a Vanagon.
Big No-No.(here anyway) _________________ T.K. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: I fear the automatic |
|
|
Terry Kay wrote: |
Big No-No here in Vanagonland.
Engine braking is real hard on the wimpy
VW driveline. |
No way would I drop down the grade on US 50 into Austin, NV without using engine braking nor would I go down thousands of other steep western or Appalachiann grades on brakes alone. If you like leaving the road at 60 mph and visiting the bottom of the nearby canyon keep it in high and used the brakes to do all the slowing. As a general rule for a rig of this or an earlier era is to always use the same gear going down as you would have to going up. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: I fear the automatic |
|
|
I respect your reply TK. You are more knowledge about Vanagons than I. Perhaps I should have said slowing down with the engine, rather engine braking. On the Hana highway the automatic tends to carry too much speed into the turns. The result is you have to drive at a slower overall speed. The manual is faster overall on that road.
"Although Hana is only about 52 miles (84 km) from Kahului, it takes about 2.5 hours to drive when no stops are made as the highway is very winding and narrow and passes over 59 bridges, 46 of which are only one lane wide. There are approximately 620 curves along Route 360 from just east of Kahului to Hana"
Aloha
tp |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: i fear the automatic |
|
|
PDXWesty wrote: |
I had the same concern when looking for my last van. I drove an auto and asked around and got the same type of answers. After driving it now for 9 years, I don't regret the choice one bit. Driving is more enjoyable and reliability has not been an issue. |
same here
also, the automatic transmission and unit body are the best designed parts of this vehicle - see the Design Deficiencies thread
an A/T gives better initial traction on a poor surface too
the cost is about 1 mpg
not clear if the long term costs are higher - over 20 years you may never rebuild an A/T but you will replace a manual clutch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
avernon82 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: Richmond,CA
|
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: I fear the automatic |
|
|
how would you guys compare the automatic to the manual for off-road ability?
kinda nice to be able to crawl with the auto without riding the clutch or worry about stalling.
if only you could add a locking diff to the auto... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|