Steering box woes -- TRW alternatives?

[akear]

I have a fairly new TRW box that came with a complete rebuilt (stock) front beam I had installed about 1-1/2 years ago. The steering has always seemed to have excessive freeplay but I adjusted it per Bentley and have lived with it as a quirk of an old car design. Now it’s developed a dead spot, meaning as I turn the wheel from one side to the other, I have normal resistance then a “jump” of 2-3 inches of steering wheel movement until I feel resistance again. This dead spot is usually close to center but not always. (Its very unsettling going through a curve!) This dead spot is in the box as when watching below nothing else is moving. I think this new box is shot already, right? In reading through the Samba posts it seems the TRW boxes are hit or miss, but I also don’t see any other options except trying my luck with a used box. Advice appreciated, and Happy New Year!

[rockerarm]

Hi. Yeah, happy new year. Let me know if you want me to scout out a good steering box. Many resources here in Los Angeles. Years ago the TRW was the good part to buy, but things change.
Bill.

[akear]

Thanks, Bill. If I go used, which is where I may be headed, I thought I would drop in on Bela and see what he has on his shelf -- he as everything else imaginable. If that doesn't pan out I'll ask for your help; I really appreciate it. Would you rebuild a used one? I would at least want to open it up to inspect. I did find this thread for rebuilding an early box...
http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5530

And I found this info on the Beetle-Late Model forum for the seals needed for a late box, made by Chicago Rawhide:

worm gear seal:
CR # 6405
Spec: 16x24x7 HMS4 R

lower main seal:
CR # 9504
Spec: 24x37x7 HMS4 R

EDIT: Found more on seals and rebuilding here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=474406

[andk5591]

Interesting...I have installed at least 4 or more TRW boxes and I have a new spare on the shelf. Never have had an issue.

BUT I have concerns about the car I am working on right now. Already had a new box on it when it came to the shop, but the owner cranked down the screw to tighten up the steering, which was not an issue with the box, but some crappy U joints in his steering shaft. My concern is that he may have damaged it. Have never had to do any adjustments on the ones I have installed, and have about 30K miles on one of mine and about 10K or more on another one.

If I work on a car that the original box feels good and only needs minor adjusting, I clean, paint and lube it and call it a day. If its not nice, I just install a TRW. Wondering if your box got messed up before you got it. People tend to think that if there is an adjustment screw, they need to turn it.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[akear]

Well, I did adjust it but I don't think I messed it up. It had several inches of steering wheel play right off the bat. I adjusted it per Bentley -- I recall maybe a half turn of the top screw to find resistance and then off a hair. Also checked the big allen adjuster in front but was fine. I still ended up with excessive play of about 1-1/2 inches of wheel play. (Note I'm used to driving old cars so I'm not comparing to a modern car.) I think I got a bum box from the start. I note my box did not have the yellow paint on the adjusting nuts like I see in some on-line photos of the TRW boxes. Also my box body is brown -- I see some are black, maybe suggesting different manufacturing plants. For those that have had good luck with the TRW boxes, where are you buying them? And did they have the yellow paint? Still unsure what to do.

[andk5591]

I have bought my boxes from a variety of sources (CIP1, Carquest, and some others places. )

All of mine look exacly like this (not my pic)- I think some may have had a darker main body. I can't confirm on the yellow paint either way. Not at the shop to look at the new one, nor the one on the car I am working on.

There are some folks on here that dont care for them, but I have not had any issues. As far as adjusting, it sounded like you bought the beam with the box already on it and I assumed that it wasnt brand new. Maybe I misunderstood.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[akear]

[akear]

Update... I decided to try my luck with a used box and could not be happier! I now have no free play at all, the car tracks straight down the highway, and I have nice and light but solid steering feel. I bought the box here on theSamba classifieds hoping I'd get a good one and I guess I lucked out. I picked one that looked like it still had some decent amount of threads left on the top adjuster. When I got it, it felt nice and solid so I only had to do a little "freshening up". Some pics...
The box I bought...

After cleaning up...

Old grease. I cleaned this out and filled with kerosene for a few days to get the remainder. The kerosene soak also allowed me to check for any leaking seals.

Cut a new gasket...

I used vacuum caps to replace the original plastic plugs...

Refilled with this "Penrite Steering Box Lube", available on-line. I found in another thread that the original specs called for the late boxes to be filled with "liquid grease". I'm assuming this is the stuff...

Ta-da! Ready to replace my piece of crap TRW box...

[VWCOOL]

Good work, it's always good to re-condition and re-use good old parts

The steering issues may also have been caused by:
The box being loose on the beam, the flexible coupling bolts being loose, steering shaft being loose on the flexible coupling, the flexible coupling being loose on the box

All would have been rectified with the fitting of a replacement steering box.. although the replacement steering box wouldn't have rectified it!

Loose torsion bars or trailing arms (especially after the fitting of adjusters) or adjusters that aren't quite clamped-up to the beam will also lead to wonky steering

Just some thoughts/possibilities (I'm sure some of us have seen all these situations... )

[akear]

^^ Agree it could have been any of those things but it wasn't. Nothing was loose when I took the TRW box out. Once I had the TRW box out, I noticed I could wiggle the pitman arm a little side-to-side so that's where my excessive free play was coming from. For kicks I tried to adjust it out but couldn't.

I also posted my experience in the 58-67 Beetle forum, as there is a long thread on the TRW boxes over there. I offered that I would ship my TRW box to anyone that wanted to open it up and inspect and post what they find for the good of the community. Same offer here.

[andk5591]

I do a fair number exactly like you did except I just use bearing grease. My rule of thumb is if I have when seems to be a decent OE box, I go through the cleanup, etc. If the box is funky, then I do the TRW.

Once again - unless you installed the TRW box yourself, you can't trust anything. The car that I am working on and had mentioned earlier, the owner thought the box was his issue and he cranked the hell out of the adjustment screw - like 8 or more turns....He says it helped. But he doesnt know what the PO did to it either. I think there was a thread where someone tore down a TRW and showed how "crappy" they are. I dunno.

All I am saying is that I take a new TRW out of the box. Install it and drive with no issues.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[rcooled]

[akear]

^^ That stiffness should go away. Mine was also very heavy for the first several months but then loosened up. Others have posted similar experience with the TRW boxes being very stiff at first, so you might want to give it some time. As for how to tell a good used box from a bad one, I'm hoping others will chime in. The used one I got felt tight, didn't have any loosness when shaking the pitman arm back and forth, and the input shaft turned easily and smoothly. But I had no way of really telling if it was good or bad until installed.

[VWCOOL]

[VeloMikey]

Hey akear, where did you buy the Penrite Steering Box Lube? Any where close here in Los Angeles?

Does one .5L jug fill the stock steering box?
_________________
'58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed

Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748

[akear]

CerveloMikey- I got it mail-order from Restoration Supply Co. near San Diego:

http://www.restorationstuff.com

Also available from Moss Motors:

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=69695

I only used about half the bottle so I should have enough left for another box. I can bring it to you some evening this week or over the weekend. I'm just over the hill in Hollywood.

[VeloMikey]

[74 Thing]

I hate the TRW ones as well and wanted a VW box but wanted one rebuilt and ready to go.

Bought one off Ebay from this seller-he has been doing rebuilds for years and it is cheaper than a TRW box and works fantastic.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuilt-Volkwagen-Bug-Ghia...mp;vxp=mtr

[andk5591]

[tlambert]

I'm working on a 72 Ghia Vert, I read through this and found it helpful. After searching I haven't been able to find the process of getting the box off the beam with it in the car.

I'm trying to find out if the box will come off the beam without removing the gas tank?
Yes I'm sure it would be easier but I really don't want to remove it if it's not necessary......and its full at the moment.

Is there a thread on the removal of the steering box from a Ghia on here?

Or any pointers would be good.
_________________
Tim