72 standard - PA rust to driver project car [pics]

[GMATech]

First let me say, I'm not building a show car. I'm a professional mechanic and have always driven beater cars. My current beater car is a $300 civic with a fart cannon exhaust and a laundry list of other problems. I hate every second of driving it. I'm doing this car to be my new daily driver. I'm not at all worried about maintaining originality or resale value. If this is not your cup of tea, stop here.

My "done nicely" project is the 77 camper, but my buddy split up with his girlfriend. With that my bus and his 54 Buick got evicted from the garage.

We got the tent garages built in time for the borough to say no way. Next it got towed my parents garage an hour away for hopefully not that long.

I picked up the 72 last spring. It was a good deal, and was on the road until 10 months before that. Floorpans have finally given it up despite the PO's best tin work. Came with all the interior including carpet. I have a nice set of seats from a newer GM product too that I'm probably going to use. Wheels look like they'll clean up and hopefully I can find the one missing center cap. I intend to roller repaint with the same colors.

I rebuilt the carb and got it running, but only the left two holes would fire. No horrible sounds and good endplay, so I was hoping for a valve problem. Then the car sat till a few weeks ago, when another garage I can work in became available. I started by removing and tearing down the engine.

Looks like two burned pistons on the right, must have gotten lean. Tentative plans for the engine are to keep it relatively cheap and not crack the case, get new stock jugs for it and have the heads looked at. I just took a job that has me driving about 20 miles of 476 in philly each way. Traffic is heavy but moving. I'm fine with sitting in the right lane, but even so I'd like to try and find a set of dual carbs to give it a little extra pep.

Engine suggestions are welcome at this point, it's been a long time since I built one of these. I got the red engine book. I have a small turbo from an old subaru. I would like to build a larger displacement turbo engine down the line. I'm really not trying to go crazy with this motor, just enough to get me going.

Next came getting the body off to do the floors. This proved that that PO's tin skills were better than the work done to the floors. Fuel tank had a little rust in some spots but is in pretty good shape.

So it's pretty crusty, but I have a welder and it doesn't have to look nice. The new floorpans are due to arrive tomorrow. Heater channels are pretty much gone on the bottom. I'm not sure if it's still called a rocker, but where the bolts through the floopans are I had to hold all the nuts from the inside as they were spinning. The rear seat and bulkhead areas had a heck of a tin job and some work in all 4 wheel wells too. The right rear of the apron has been bent slightly and the spare tire tub is a little holy. I've found plenty of repair panels for most of the parts that I'm going to have to replace, but any suggestions are welcome.

Is there any hope of saving this beam? It's in great shape except right next to the jack stand there.
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[air-h2o-air]

you sure about 72? you have 73 and later seat tracks and adjusters and 73 and later tail lights

[GMATech]

Vin starts with 112
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[andk5591]

Beam - Tell ya what - I will give you one that I fixed like that....All nicely welded up, painted and everything.....I'll grab it off the scrap pile. Here is the problem. If you pull your lower control arms, you will find that your spring pack will probably have rust and crud all over because the tubes themselves have rotted through.

I don't want to tell you how much time I wasted on making a really pretty piece of scrap metal. Find a decent beam. They are out there in your neck of the woods. I got a nice used one with adjusters last year at the Pittsburgh classic for a couple hundred bucks. New or rebuilt center sections arent that expensive either. Be cautious of the low buck imported (from S America) rebuilds that most dealers sell. I bought one last summer and returned it. Was totally unacceptable.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[[email protected]]

When you are doing your floorpans/heater channel bottoms, you may want to set the body back down on the chassis to check the alignment of everything before final welding. Each one of those items locates the other. You could create a template to lay out on your floor pan of flat bar stock steel, and drill holes where the body mounting holes would be on the outer edge to help you start with aligning the new pan. Simply welding on the pans/channel bottom where they look like they should go may have you being no where even close to lining up any bolt holes upon reassembly. You may also want to start the rear corner repair with the body on the chassis. The body is specifically shaped there to clear the torsion caps. Simply welding in a patch could result in it hitting the torsion/moving the body too far forward, or not being able to get the torsion cap off if you ever needed to work on it down the road. Buy the thickest gauge metal panels you can find, and the highest quality seam sealer/primer/paint you can afford for final finishing. Simply welding in an inexpensive pan, and leaving it in the e-coat primer it came in without any other finish work will rust out in a year/two in PA.

[Dwayne1m]

While you have the body off you should replace the backlite tubes for the heat unless you have another idea for heat. Much easier to replace with the body off.

[gt1953]

Dang that is a lot of work. I can see if several dry rolling bodies where brought back there from the desert I would not have a problem selling them. Only titled bodies would go back.
As far as engine stock 1600 or mild 1776.
It is interesting the VIN is 112 and yet has 73 items. What is the month of the build on the drivers door post. Do like the wheels, look on the inside see if they are Dan Gurney's.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[GMATech]

Floorpans are here! Thanks for all the good advice. I guess I'll be getting a beam from acme in Harrisburg.

I'll see if the sticker on the door post is still there. Don't think I've seen it though. Any other way to tell?
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[air-h2o-air]

does floor pan VIN match dash and door jamb VIN?

maybe it's had a pan change in it's past life?

[thechief86]

Keep chugging along! I've saved a couple of cars that were much rustier.
Yours actually looks very solid for PA. I would suggest that when you have it all welded up that you seam seal.and POR 15 the crap out of it, top and bottom (just the pan and tunnel) and paint the floor and do some roll on truck bed liner on the bottom over the POR 15, and put your carpet in. (Wheel wells and inner fenders as well)
Then I'd stick it on a lift every couple of years to touch up and preserve your work. It is possible to keep a car in good shape even with salty roads. You just gotta stay on top of it.
Good luck!
_________________
"A poor workman always blames his parts... Ya gotta have skillz to hang junk." -johnnypan

[[email protected]]

Yeah, that is actually above average for the lack of amount of rust for a PA car. That's what most Northeasterners have to deal with for a running/driving classic VW for less than $3k. I always get a chuckle when someone doesn't buy a car because the dash has been altered, or the paint is burnt through on the roof.
I'm not a big fan of POR-15. It does work well when applied EXACTLY how it is supposed to be over rusted metal, but I've seen too many instances where it has quickly peeled off of non rusted surfaces with no texture of rust to cling to. The European epoxy primers, like Glasurit, have the most durability, but are usually more than someone wants to spend. I used Duponts Imron on my floorpan in 92. The car doesn't get driven in the Winter, but it still shines 23+ years later. Valspar makes an excellent polyurethane paint similar to Imron, but quite a bit less. I do like the idea of extra protection of something like a bed liner, but the paint underneath has to be perfect, or the bed liner can separate, and trap more water than it repels. You need to decide if you want to spend more up front on higher quality/cost materials that would last longer, or spend less on lower quality/cost materials that you will need to do more upkeep on. I would use Glasurit's epoxy primer with Valspars polyurethane paint. I used PPG's epoxy, and Duponts Imron on the inside of a bumper that had the rust neutralized with Permatex's rust converter, and it took 22 years for it to finally bubble. The salt brine liquid that's been used in PA for the last 5-7 years is notorious for eating the brake lines off of new GM vehicles in about the same amount of time, so driving anything in PA year round is a loosing battle.

Edit: That rust converter I mentioned is a white liquid that unoxidizes the rust, turning it a black color. Permatex used to sell it as a product called Extend, but Loctite now markets it. You can use that on any rusted areas you can't sand/media blast before you prime. You can usually find it at Advance Auto.

[thechief86]

It was crazy to me how much more rust there is on cars just 40 miles north of me in Bowling Green, Ky than in TN. We get a little salt, and I have noticed some surface rust on my beam and on the axles in my jeep which didn't get undercoated when the body and frame did, but Kentucky, and anything north of there is just asking to get destroyed by rust.
It seems rare to even see cars more than 15 years old once you get into Indiana and Ohio...
_________________
"A poor workman always blames his parts... Ya gotta have skillz to hang junk." -johnnypan

[gt1953]

NUMBER tag. Look on the front lip of the trunk to the right of the latch. There should be a tag riveted to it. It tells the week and day of the build. My 72 and 73 standards have them in place. Like mentioned on the drivers door post should tell the month and year with VIN number.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[andk5591]

4 things - If you havent - find and join the Fresh Air yahoo group. Its Pittsburgh based and a great bunch of folks that share our affliction.

#2 - You are aware of Bugstuff in Brownsville? Jack is a pretty good guy and he may be driving distance for you. A little late on the pans, but shipping tends to be pretty bad for them.

#3 Beam - what did you buy? New? Reconditioned or what? Let me elaborate - almost every VW parts vendor has been selling the same reconditioned complete beams for similar money. Someone had been importing and acting as a distributor, I guess. They used to come out of Mexico and were usually redone nicely. However - what we are starting to see is that some or all are coming from S America now. The last one I got that I returned pretty much looked like it was pulled from a junked car, hit with rattle can paint and that was it. There was still dirt in the drain plugs that caused your issue.

#4 If you head out to Acme sometime and don't take the turnpike, you will probably drive past my shop - on 322 about 8 miles east for State College. Give me a call so you can stop by.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[GMATech]

I went to Alaska and with all the snow we had I haven't done much to it. I did find a painted over sticker in the drivers door jam, could see 01/73 in dots. Did not see the any tags riveted near either the front or rear hood latch. The number stamped on the pan near the shift rod access hole is 113. So I'm thinking this car may have had the dash swapped at some point and is a 73? Does that sound right?

I got pans for a 72, the tracks are obviously different. Will they fit other than the seat tracks? I have seats from a newer car I intend to use.

Lots more parts on the way.
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[andk5591]

Shit - I didnt notice your pedestal seal mounts. Yeah - 73 pan for sure. Your new pans will work just fine. But if you are using your seats, you would have to transfer the pedestal and tracks from the old pans.

Something to watch out for - 71 and 72 seat tracks have a wider top than earlier cars. Hence seat bases for those are different than earlier cars. And as you now know, 73 and up are a whole different animal.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[GMATech]

Old picture, but the seats and seat tracks I got with the car were not right.

Are these the ones that work with my new pans? Probably going to use new seats anyway but would be nice to know.
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[GMATech]

Looks like I need a set of heads, this engine is worse than I first thought. I think I'm cracking the case tomorrow.

Pans should be going in tomorrow as well.
_________________
77 westfalia vr6 project
72 standard beetle project - for sale
ASE Master Tech since '03 A1-A9 L1 L3 G1
PA safety and emissions inspector
General Motors guru

[Rome]

Too bad about all those cracks in your heads. Yes, you'll need better ones. Consider this shop not too far from you for new parts and engine machine work- Dennis and Misty know their stuff. If you are on a tight budget, they may even have some serviceable used heads, though it's very likely used heads will need new valve guides and certainly exhaust valves. http://www.vw-store.com/

[andk5591]

I dont think Dennis redoes heads much anymore. Does porting and such, but not rebuilding. Till its all said in done, many times its cheaper to get a new set. If you are going stock, I got a set of the new Empi dual ports from CIP1 https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-98-1349-B Was VERY pleasantly surprised. I had talked to Chris at CIP1 quite a while about these before I ordered them. I was really impressed with how clean the castings were - very little flashing on the fins. These are now my "go to" stock replacement head.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...