Engine seized - New 1641cc Brazil

[382CR62]

Thanx in advance.

Just got a recently purchased 66 rewired and turning over. PO had installed a newly rebuilt 1641 Brazillian engine. They got frustrated with the electrical troubleshooting and sold it.
After a few tries with the key it fired and stopped...twice. Then I kept it floored and it fired and ran a few seconds, as soon as I took my foot off the pedal (to see if it would idle on its own) the engine stopped suddenly. Tried the key again and could hear the starter straining. Put a wrench on the Gen pulley and Crank pulley would not turn.

What do I do next?

[sjbartnik]

Take it apart.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[johnhous]

Doesn't sound good. I've struggled with getting main bearings on pins and setting end play. It won't run very long if one screws this stuff up.

But if nothing broke loose maybe 99% of your engine is good.

I think ya gotta pull it and perhaps split it.

[382CR62]

The engine has less than 100 miles on it. It was rebuilt in a garage by pros that specialize in vintage VWs
It ran fine before the PO decided to replace the wiring harness 8 months ago.

Could it simply be a valve issue?

[sjbartnik]

Take a look. Do the easiest things first. Take generator belt off, make sure it's not the generator that seized. I don't think you're gonna be that lucky though, if the generator seized the engine would keep going and just slip the belt.

Next pull off the valve covers and take a look for anything obviously wrong/broken. If you can't turn it over though this isn't going to tell you much unless something is glaringly obvious.

Next step after that is remove engine from car and start tearing it down until you find the problem.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

[Helfen]

[382CR62]

Got the engine out.
First thing I noticed was a fresh scoring on the inside of the bell housing from the flywheel. Do I need to consider a different flywheel and starter when I put it all back together?
Torn the engine down to the pistons. Did not remove flywheel nut yet as I don't have the big socket yet.
Still not turning.
Once I crack the case, what am I looking for? It will turn fine once it is in two pieces.

[cide1]

A '66 transaxle needs a 180mm flywheel, '67 and up used 200 mm flywheel. Perhaps it has the wrong flywheel? it is possible to grind a '66 transaxle to let a 200mm one fit, but by default it will rub.

As far as what you are looking for to get it to turn, that's the type of question that if you have to ask, maybe it's time to seek help from either an engine / machine shop or a local club member who will spend a few hours with you. Something is stopping it from turning, could be main bearings, could be broken pistons, could be a dropped valve, could be a bad oil pump or clogged oil passage caused several of these things to happen. Hard to say without taking it apart, finding it, and putting it back together.

[sjbartnik]

[sjbartnik]

How'd the oil look when you drained it?
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Cusser]

Sounds like no one clearanced the case for the 200mm flywheel !!!

Once the engine was removed, did it turn OK with a wrench? If so, I wouldn't take it apart any more.

[jbclem]

Make sure there's some flywheel end play. If you can't feel any, after you take the flywheel off see if the engine is still frozen.

[382CR62]

The oil looks great. Like I said, the engine has less than 100 miles on it.
I tried to turn the engine at each stage of the tear down to be able to identify and isolate the problem. I'm using a big wrench on the crankshaft bolt and a hand on the flywheel.
I'm going to go get the tools for the flywheel nut today, and may have more to add tonight.
More about the tranny-
I emailed the PO and she said
"The prior engine was a 1300cc single port. When the 1640cc engine was put in, if I am not mistaken they have to grind part of the transmission housing in order to make the dual port work with the single port transmission. That might be what you are seeing with the flywheel."
The bell housing was not full of aluminum shavings, there was a little dust in the teeth. Maybe its fine?

[Dougy Dee]

Sounds like an improperly clearanced bellhousing managed to foul the flywheel and reduced/eliminated any thrust clearances. The lack of oil between the thrust bearing and flywheel seized things up.
It must have been a bugger to turn over at the best of times.

[382CR62]

As soon as I got the case cracked it turn just great.
It would not turn before that-I tried after each step of the tear down.
There wasn't anything super obvious wrong inside. One of the cam followers was stiff, but I got it moving with a little pressure.
Could that have been it?
I'm not ruling out the flywheel/bell housing issue. I am strongly considering replacing the 200mm with a 180. Would I need a different starter? The one it is a 12v short shaft.

[williamM]

Would definitely do a tear down now your this far- Its going to be a dowel pin or hammered center main over tightened. should see marks on the bell housing - but you have already revealed the problem is in the crank and mains clearance issue. Would look over the cam bearings closly though.

Might have an overly tight line bore.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[jbclem]

If you've only just cracked the case, just a little bit, and you haven't removed the flywheel yet, you might want to torque the case back up and check what happens after you remove the flywheel. You only need to torque the six large case nuts to do this. The most efficient way to troubleshoot this kind of problem is to take off the flywheel first.

[382CR62]

I took the flywheel off before I cracked the case.
Once the flywheel was off I tried to turn the crankshaft pulley-It still would not turn.
Then I cracked the case and the crank turned easily. Then I removed the piston heads.
I'm going to clean everything up today to get a better look.
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As far as the bellhousing/flywheel issue go. I read through some other threads on it and am thinking it will be way cheaper and hopefully easier to just shave some more off. I have the #10 bugme video, it covers it, so I'm going to watch it again and look at mine more closely.
Thoughts?

[jbclem]

When you pull the case apart, try to do it so one side is flat on some surface (or parallel to the ground) so the crank and bearings will stay in place. Before you move the crank and bearings look at the side of the bearings for the marks the engine builder makes...these marks (usually a V or a line scratched into the side of the bearing) correspond to the dowel pin holes on the bearing(s). It gives the builder a way to make sure he's lined the bearings up properly with the dowel pins. If a bearing has moved off it's dowel pin, you might be able to spot it by where the V or line is. Not everyone uses these lines, you can also feel the bearing snap into the dowel pin, but it's a way to be sure you've got it right.

I agree about grinding the bell housing yourself. It's not hard to do and you're better off with the 200mm flywheel and the large clutch that goes on it.

It's good that you took the flywheel off first...that eliminated one possible cause of the lockup.