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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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Moving forward with a modern drivetrain & Corvair rear suspension seems like going backwards...
bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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GS guy
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007
Posts: 968
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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The Corvair transaxle is an integral part of the Corvair rear suspension, in both guises - swingaxle and IRS. The early model SA is similar to the VW SA in operation - the transaxle provides the inner axle pivot points. The later model IRS uses the transaxle to axle pivot joint as a combination inner axle pivot and as a suspension "upper link" pivot - similar to the Mako Corvette and early Jag rear. Most other transaxles are not designed to take suspension loads at the transaxle carrier like the Corvair, although I've heard of using the "overbuilt" 930 Porsche trans for this purpose.
This makes it difficult to "adapt" just about any other rear-engine transaxle to the Corvair rear suspension. You have to design and install suspension pivot points and upper links not depending on the transaxle for support (the lower links are present in the Corvair design).
I personally think the Subaru 5 and 6-speed transaxles would make awesome replacements for the Corvair trans, especially with the availability of the reverse R&P gears. Just needs a bolt-in or simple weld-in design subframe for the upper suspension links and a modified trailing arm to accept the upper link. Same for any FGB based on a Corvair suspended chassis. I'd bet the guys at Subarugears would tool up for a Corvair (engine) to Subaru trans adapter and flywheel if there was enough interest. They seem eager to adapt the Suby engine and gearboxes to a multitude of applications.
Jeff
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70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| EVfun wrote: |
Has anybody converted a Corvair rear chassis setup to take a Subaru transaxle?
If a Subaru transaxle is used with either a Subaru or Corvair engine then no reversal should be needed. |
Subaru transaxle is for front engine....
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5469
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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You mean these Subaru engine and transaxle swaps into Bugs all require a custom ring and pinion? I thought the Subaru engine turned the opposite direction. 
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| Subarus turn the same direction as almost everything other than Corvairs and 928 Porsches, but when you put a front Subaru transaxle in back it requires a different ring and pinion, the ring gear can't be flipped |
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tgodber
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:05 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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Is the body the same dimensions as a Manx. Would it fit a VW pan or are you stuck with the Corvair setup?
My buggies are not restored. It was a matter of putting the project together with quality parts and end up with a reliable fun buggy.
Some are into restoration. Not me personally.
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My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that! |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:08 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| EVfun wrote: |
Has anybody converted a Corvair rear chassis setup to take a Subaru transaxle?
If a Subaru transaxle is used with either a Subaru or Corvair engine then no reversal should be needed. |
The Suby trans is turned around backwards from normal configuration, so it still has to be reversed to work. The suby and VW engine have the same rotation, the corvair rotates the opposite direction.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| tgodber wrote: |
| Is the body the same dimensions as a Manx. Would it fit a VW pan or are you stuck with the Corvair setup? |
That's not something I'd consider a disadvantage. This is Mike McCrae's Classic Manx with an all Corvair drivetrain, 4-spider, posi, 3.89. Holley 4-barrel with heated plenum manifold.
How about a 5 speed
http://aboxer.tripod.com/ |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
Has anybody converted a Corvair rear chassis setup to take a Subaru transaxle?
If a Subaru transaxle is used with either a Subaru or Corvair engine then no reversal should be needed. |
The Suby trans is turned around backwards from normal configuration, so it still has to be reversed to work. The suby and VW engine have the same rotation, the corvair rotates the opposite direction. |
The Subaru transaxle rotated 180-degrees about the Vertical (think - installed like a VW Type 1 trans) would not require a R&P flip to work with a Standard-Rotation (CCW at the crank pulley) Corvair engine...
Now - let the debates begin regarding the strength of the Subaru gears running 'backwards'... 
For me? I'd look to using the cheap 5-speed transmissions from a FWD Passat/Audi A4 in back of a buggy if the desire was to use a Standard-Rotation Corvair engine. VW Type 1 CV axles will bolt up with use of matching trans output flanges, and another Samba Forum member has been running the Passat/Audi trans in Vanagons with a rev-rot'd 1.8T engine.
bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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Subie gears do not run backwards you can not flip R&P, it requires new reverse rotation R&P gear set....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
Subie gears do not run backwards you can not flip R&P, it requires new reverse rotation R&P gear set....
Dale |
Subarugears makes a new ring and pinion and flips the ring gear to the other side of the pinion. The new gear set is made to apply pressure to the proper side of the tooth instead of the coast side like flipping a VW ring gear.
For holding up, two of them raced the NORRA Baja 1000, finished 1 and 2 in class, partied, drove back to SoCal, cleaned them, then drove both across the US and back. Only problem was a clutch disk did not like the silt during the race, and in Columbus Ohio, one electrical connector broke, (on the engine electrical system, not trans).
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
Subie gears do not run backwards you can not flip R&P, it requires new reverse rotation R&P gear set....
Dale |
A reverse rotation R&P Subaru transmission still won't work in a rear engine application in conjunction with a standard rotation Corvair engine.
bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:23 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| BL3Manx wrote: |
| Subarus turn the same direction as almost everything other than Corvairs and 928 Porsches, but when you put a front Subaru transaxle in back it requires a different ring and pinion, the ring gear can't be flipped |
The Porsche 928 engine rotates in standard clockwise rotation when looking at front of engine (at harmonic balancer).
Starter is under the engine on 928 -
The is why the 928 starter can be used on T1 gearbox to spin over a standard-rotation (CCW at harmonic balancer) Corvair engine swap.
bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| didget69 wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
Subie gears do not run backwards you can not flip R&P, it requires new reverse rotation R&P gear set....
Dale |
A reverse rotation R&P Subaru transmission still won't work in a rear engine application in conjunction with a standard rotation Corvair engine.
bnc |
Was not even EVER considering Corvair in my comments, all I was commenting on is a complete Subaru application...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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Dale M,
Is it possible to replace a VW transmission and engine with a Subie engine and transmission by purchasing the ring and pinion set from Subagears?
Thanks, Jeff
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy! |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| heywebonya wrote: |
Dale M,
Is it possible to replace a VW transmission and engine with a Subie engine and transmission by purchasing the ring and pinion set from Subagears?
Thanks, Jeff |
That is exactly what you do to make it rear engine/drivetrain.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| Subarugears makes a new ring and pinion and flips the ring gear to the other side of the pinion. |
There isn't room to flip the ring gear to the other side of the pinion, that's why the Subarugears gears are cut backwards. The ring gear stays on the same side of the pinion but rotates in the revese direction |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| heywebonya wrote: |
Dale M,
Is it possible to replace a VW transmission and engine with a Subie engine and transmission by purchasing the ring and pinion set from Subagears?
Thanks, Jeff |
That is exactly what you do to make it rear engine/drivetrain. |
Agreed....
But it also could make a awesome mid engine combination and you would not have to replace R&P.. Like if you were to put it into a mid engine kit car like Porsche RSK..
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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| BL3Manx wrote: |
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| Subarugears makes a new ring and pinion and flips the ring gear to the other side of the pinion. |
There isn't room to flip the ring gear to the other side of the pinion, that's why the Subarugears gears are cut backwards. The ring gear stays on the same side of the pinion but rotates in the revese direction |
Think about that for a second. The input shaft still turns the same direction, so the pinion will turn the same direction, so it cannot possibly turn the ring gear backwards if it is still on the same side. So Subarugears makes a ring and pinion to flip the ring gear to the other side of the pinion which allows the input shaft to turn the stock direction, but change the axle rotation.
It is some mental math, and most times my mental state is tired.
Check out the photos on their website:
http://www.subarugears.com/About/About.html
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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streetbuggy8804
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 652
Location: Placentia,ca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: What is this max buggy worth |
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A thing of beauty.
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