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help!!! does anyone know who made this frame???
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jkiser1991
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:31 pm    Post subject: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

i have the same rail buggy frame can anyone tell me a maker?
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Yup!

The buggy in the picture is a Sand Sprite I. Made either by the originators of the design, San Fernando Buggy, or by the company that they sold the rights to the design and name to, Prowler's.

The buggy in the picture has a VW torsion housing and is rear engined. Other versions of the Sand Sprite may look similar, but might have coil over rear suspension with swing axle, and/or may be mid-engined again with swingaxle and coilover suspension. One of my neighbor's has one of the mid-engined versions with a rather different roll cage.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Frame appears to be a Hi-Jumper Ascot II racing chassis. I am comparing it with a pictures from the San Fernando Buggy Center 1983 catalog. The down bars from the A pillar to upper chassis frame rail are in a different location then the picture. The bars position look more like the Ascot III picture.
Could be Hi-Jumper changed thing during production of the chassis.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

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The differences between the Ascot II and III can be seen in the pictures.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

jkiser1991...

Can you post a picture of your rail. I agree with Joe that the purple buggy is probably an Ascot II with some custom features. Mike and Kent Brown did not build all frames exactly the same at the time, and most customers wanted something a little custom to suit themselves.

I figure that there will be very few Ascot IIs or IIIs out there. As someone who has a rail with race history (Ascot IIs and IIIs were built for racing and were substantially more costly than Sand Sprites) can be expected to advertise it as a race car, even if it's an old racer. I expect most buggies that the owner doesn't know what it is will probably be play frames, thus I opted for the Sand Sprite which looks similar to the purple one, but slightly different. A Sand Sprite has only a single upright at the B-Pillar, instead of 2, and it doesn't have a wind wing post. The rear bumper (many Sand Sprites have no rear bumper, just a cross bar at the very rear of the frame) doesn't have a loop around the sides and bottom bars all welded to the frame. And they rarely have the X-bracing in the front. So I stated Sand Sprite before as it's likely to be what you have.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
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Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jkiser1991
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys! Here are some pics for mine

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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

That is a early Hi-jumper Sand Sprite 1 with a stock VW torsion housing.
Yes it has been reinforced with the X-bracing in the front and the support bars to the A pillar. Plus the triple rear shock mounts setup was added too.
Also you can tell it is a Sand Sprite and not a Ascot by the rear end and bumper cage area.
The front beam is a Wright Place adjustable beam. The 4 pinch bolts in the center on each front axle beam tube are for keeping the center collar from turning after adjusting the ride height/preload. Cecil Wright was a played a big part in the early days with the products he made. When I race off road years ago I used his spindles, rack and pinion, and his aluminum tie rods with Ford truck tie rod ends.
Have fun with driving it. It looks like a very fun buggy to play with.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Joe's right.

Sand Sprite I with upgrades.

Nice rail. Bodywork would make it even nicer.

I too have Wright Place parts all over the front of my Hi Jumper. Cecil invented the combo link spindle and fabricated front trailing arms and for years was the only manufacturer of them. He also invented the heavy duty offroad center-load rack and pinion. His heavy duty tie rods were the racing standard even before rack & pinions. His was the 1st front torsion adjuster strong enough for offroad racing. Before that there was only the weak for street Crown adjuster. Lot of offroad heavy duty parts that we owe to the mind of Cecil Wright.
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Richard
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Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jkiser1991
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

D9 you have any pics of any with body work? And thanks for the info everyone!
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vwstranded
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

jkiser1991 What type of rear brakes are you running on yours. I recently purchased a single seat buggy that looks to have a similar rear torsion set up. My brakes are disc. FUCA KT1200 stamped on the hub. Hub and rotor are two piece. Caliper is VW
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

jkiser1991 wrote:
D9 you have any pics of any with body work? And thanks for the info everyone!


The early style HiJumper Ascot body work like mine will fit.

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So will the later style Sand Sprite/Ascot III bodywork. I'll look for pics of that.

There is a fair chance that Berrien and some other brands fiberglass will fit as well. I've seen early Hi Jumper bodies on Berrien frames as well as Chenowth bodies on Berrien frames. So Chenowth may fit it too.

Aluminum panels could be made without too much skill at forming body panels.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

My Hi Jumper Ascot I (yellow car - orange car is a Funco)
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A customer's Hi Jumper Ascot I
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A Hi Jumper Ascot II with early Ascot I bodywork
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More Hi Jumper Ascot II's with early body
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A Sand Sprite I with early body
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An Ascot III with Sand Sprite/Ascot III body
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A Sand Sprite I with Sand Sprite/Ascot III body
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A Hi Jumper Ascot II with home made aluminum body
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A Sand Sprite I with home made aluminum body
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jkiser1991
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

vwstranded wrote:
jkiser1991 What type of rear brakes are you running on yours. I recently purchased a single seat buggy that looks to have a similar rear torsion set up. My brakes are disc. FUCA KT1200 stamped on the hub. Hub and rotor are two piece. Caliper is VW


i am running dics brakes but i have no idea who made them. i took some pics and i will upload later. i am about to put front brakes on it but i have to figure out what to run
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Sandjunky
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

That diagonal support bar looks like a PITA. For one it is in the way and two it offers very minimal support since it is not triangulated at the hip bar. If it were dumped on its roof the energy would go to the hip bar and then bend it since there is nothing beneath it to disperse the energy. If I were you I would ditch it and do this:


This would be much stronger and do more than just make you feel safer in a roll over.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Sandjunky wrote:
That diagonal support bar looks like a PITA. For one it is in the way and two it offers very minimal support since it is not triangulated at the hip bar. If it were dumped on its roof the energy would go to the hip bar and then bend it since there is nothing beneath it to disperse the energy. If I were you I would ditch it and do this:


This would be much stronger and do more than just make you feel safer in a roll over.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good suggestion Sandjunky. I agree with it and had already thought out the same issue. Note that the purple frame Hi Jumper has that bar supported under the "hip rail" as Sandjunky called it, by triple triangulation, as it should be.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In jkiser1991's rail, it was probably added later, as San Fernando Buggy would have triangulated it like in the purple frame. The San Fernando Buggy catalog page of the Ascot II shows it going to the junction of the B-pillar and the top rail (as I call it). The RSII has it going all the way to the B-pillar/Bottom rail/torsion housing junction.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Ascot III also has it supported with triple triangulation under the top rail:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note that racers using those frames in the day entered and exited the car through the windshield opening mostly. Some cars such as the Ascot III I posted above, entry and exit was by way of the hinged roof.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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jkiser1991
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

As soon as i start get some free time those bars were going to go, it is real hard to get in and out but thanks for the suggestion i was trying to figure our where to place new bars.
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Sandjunky
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

Sorry, I call it a hip bar since the plans that I used to build my Barracuda minibuggy calls it a hip bar. Plans are from Australia so I guess they rubbed off on me a little. Embarassed

Keep in mind that it will be difficult to fit a tube between the "hip bar" and the floor bar at the "V" since everything is already welded. You'll have to notch one side deeper to get it to fit. It isn't likely to fail with good welding, but I would recommend notching the inside bottom deeper and installing from the outside in. This way in the unlikely event that it failed from top force it will direct the tube out and away from you or a passenger. Granted it would take a LOT of force to make that happen... but you do have a turbo! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: help!!! does anyone know who made this frame??? Reply with quote

That's OK. Rick Crumb of Crumco calls that a "mid-bar" as there is a top rail at the roof of the cage. To me, that tube is the top of the chassis, and above that is roll cage, although the roll cage is part of the overall chassis structure too. My way of seeing it probably dates back to road race cars I grew up around in the 60s, when tube frame open wheel formula cars or fendered sports racer cars had a roll bar with a single or 2 back brace. In that case, the roll bar was really an afterthought to the chassis design.

If the lower brace is installed before the upper piece, th elower will be easier to get in.

The other thing I consider important for safety in that chassis, and for safety, more important thatn the "windwing bars" is adding a shoulder bar to attach the shoulder straps to . It should be about the height of your shoulders and also made of 1.5" x .095 tube. Shoulder straps mounted as low as they are in the pics is dangerous for spinal compression. Your shoulders and spine are not designed to be supported by the shoulders.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.
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