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Message |
Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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After "finishing" my car (are they ever really finished?) here are some that apply to my build specifically:
1. Build a custom tube chassis. While possible to use a pan, it's NOT necessarily the best route. This one thing could have made my life so much easier in so many ways.
2. Measure thrice. . . 
3. Put all my parts for the car in one specific location in the garage and label the OUTSIDES of the boxes so I can tell what's in them without having to resort to opening *each - and - every - box* to find the thing I'm looking for.
4. Keep a spreadsheet of what's needed for each part of the build, what's been ordered and received for the car and keep it updated so I don't re-order stuff. Then re-read #3. 
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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68vwfasty
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2014
Posts: 277
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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If you buy a non running car with no engine. Do the engine first (and any necessary repairs to get it road worthy (and drive it) before getting deep into a total resto.
Before buying a car have a pretty good idea of what your goals are and be careful of deviating from them. This can lead to smaller bank accounts 
Do lots of research on the car type your buying (I thought all old VW's were easy to get parts for). Then I bought a type 3. Well at least I didn't buy a type 4
You will most likely spend more money restoring a Type 3 (assuming you count your own labor) then you can sell it for. Of course this is true for most restorations but the resale value of a Type 3 is a bit low.
OK so the first two are not Type 3 specific but things I learned. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
That's OK, I'd get perfection then.  It would literally be a "new"car after he's done with it. You know Tram's 1 of those guys that wants it right, and will only do it right, even if it takes years. |
OK, WTF are you up to, Robert? |
HA HA, I'm not up to anything Georg, just reflecting on some of the projects I've taken on, and realized that maybe I shouldn't have done them. I mean, while I learned from them (and my mistakes), and even posted up the work in the forum, there's just some things I should have just sent out to an expert, who deals with some of that stuff on a more regular basis. That T-34 nightmare keeps coming back to my mind the most. What a royal PITA to do, and most of it delt with the T-34 only parts.
No, I'm actually at the point where I'd rather rebuild/restore anything other than another VW, and it's mainly because of the lack of quality parts to do the job correctly. And going off the resto's and rebuilds I see in the forum, it's not really getting any better either. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| 68vwfasty wrote: |
If you buy a non running car with no engine. Do the engine first (and any necessary repairs to get it road worthy (and drive it) before getting deep into a total resto.
Before buying a car have a pretty good idea of what your goals are and be careful of deviating from them. This can lead to smaller bank accounts
Do lots of research on the car type your buying (I thought all old VW's were easy to get parts for). Then I bought a type 3. Well at least I didn't buy a type 4
You will most likely spend more money restoring a Type 3 (assuming you count your own labor) then you can sell it for. Of course this is true for most restorations but the resale value of a Type 3 is a bit low.
OK so the first two are not Type 3 specific but things I learned. |
While it might make sense to rebuild the engine first, and then find out what's wrong with the car, you're actually better off not doing that unless you want to be constantly fixing stuff. You're better off going thru the entire thing first, as it'll be cheaper in the long run (you can enjoy driving it, rather than fixing it).
Buying a car, and having a goal of what you want is a good idea.
As for research, you'll find all sorts of info for a bug (they built over 22 million of them so they're common enough). The first thing you need to know, is that it costs 3 times as much to restore a type 3 than it does a bug. If you thought a type 4 was rare/expensive, try a T-34, as it costs 4 times what it costs to restore than it does for a type 3. Mostly, because of the T-34 only stuff, and it's mounted on a type 3 floor pan (can you say double whammy?). While Ray might think differently, a T-34 is just odd enough because there's early AND late versions of them that whatever is available is very expensive, while the type 4 (411/412) just doesn't have any parts to be found, and not much interchanges (it's kind of all by itself). And don't get me started on how ugly they are, as only a mother could love them.
As for making money off type 3s when restored and sold, you're absolutely right, not much to be made, unless it's very rare. And even then, you have to find the right buyer.
Now I'm not trying to put anyone off, but I've been in this hobby since 1989, back when you could get good parts thru mail order, and I've seen how things have changed over the years. I've been to Vintage VW shows, where type 3s were considered 2nd class citizens, or the organizers just didn't care. Those times have kind of changed, and our community has only gotten better with time. But, the junk being passed off as "reproduction" really sucks. It used to be that you wanted to stay away from Mexican and Brazilian parts, but now they're the better choices. 
The biggest thing I learned is like what Aaron mentioned, don't throw away any parts until you've fitted the replacement part, and it's working as good as the original.
Sorry for going off on a rant, I really didn't mean to.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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notchback
Insensitive Jerk
Joined: December 16, 2003
Posts: 7024
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Tram wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
Don't believe everything notchboy tells you.
It's more like 20 times longer. |
My car was supposed to be over there 3 years ago, but with all your problems (like climbing trees to rescue cats), it's still sitting in my barn.
Are we still on for March?
_________________
| zeen wrote: |
| Arguing with johnnypan is like mud-wrestling a pig. After a while you realize he just enjoys playing in the mud, winning the contest is not the point. |
FU#3 |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
That's OK, I'd get perfection then. It would literally be a "new"car after he's done with it. You know Tram's 1 of those guys that wants it right, and will only do it right, even if it takes years. |
OK, WTF are you up to, Robert? |
HA HA, I'm not up to anything Georg, just reflecting on some of the projects I've taken on, and realized that maybe I shouldn't have done them. I mean, while I learned from them (and my mistakes), and even posted up the work in the forum, there's just some things I should have just sent out to an expert, who deals with some of that stuff on a more regular basis. That T-34 nightmare keeps coming back to my mind the most. What a royal PITA to do, and most of it delt with the T-34 only parts.
No, I'm actually at the point where I'd rather rebuild/restore anything other than another VW, and it's mainly because of the lack of quality parts to do the job correctly. And going off the resto's and rebuilds I see in the forum, it's not really getting any better either. |
Me too. It's just crazy. I can dive into a Mercedes which is far more over engineered and complicated and things go like clockwork- but on a VW it's three steps forward, two steps back on a continual basis. Never used to be this way... every single replacement part unless it's NOS with no wear parts in it seems to be a constant set of 'WTF' issues any more. I've been going on and on about wanting to source Vewib parts... but even their Type 3 catalog seems to be mostly holes.
Even NOS stuff is so old it needs to be rebuilt right out of the box any more. I almost feel like I'm living in Cuba working on these at times!
Twenty years ago my wife kept saying I should specialize in VW because they were so easy and the parts were cheap. It was very tempting. These days? Pish.
I love VWs- esp. Type 3s- but I really do not look forward to having to deal with them any more. I have two myself that I am just dreading the builds on. As far as taking them on as shop work for customers- it's getting to where they are just boat anchors as far as work flow goes now.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| notchback wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
Don't believe everything notchboy tells you.
It's more like 20 times longer. |
My car was supposed to be over there 3 years ago, but with all your problems (like climbing trees to rescue cats), it's still sitting in my barn.
Are we still on for March? |
Let's see... March 2025?
Weather has been brutal here. December was supposedly the wettest on record- ever- and January is working on it too. We just keep getting pounded with rain and high winds almost without letup. I really don't want it to have to sit out in this crap.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| notchback wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
Don't believe everything notchboy tells you.
It's more like 20 times longer. |
My car was supposed to be over there 3 years ago, but with all your problems (like climbing trees to rescue cats), it's still sitting in my barn.
Are we still on for March? |
March 2017? Or was that March 2018?
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| I thought with all the restorations going on it would be good to have a list of things we wished we would have known or thought of doing. |
I should have sent the entire car to Tram, and paid him to do the entire car. It would have been a lot less stressful, and probably cheaper in the long run. It would have been 100% correct then. |
Yeah but it would have taken 10 times longer. |
That's OK, I'd get perfection then. It would literally be a "new"car after he's done with it. You know Tram's 1 of those guys that wants it right, and will only do it right, even if it takes years. |
OK, WTF are you up to, Robert? |
HA HA, I'm not up to anything Georg, just reflecting on some of the projects I've taken on, and realized that maybe I shouldn't have done them. I mean, while I learned from them (and my mistakes), and even posted up the work in the forum, there's just some things I should have just sent out to an expert, who deals with some of that stuff on a more regular basis. That T-34 nightmare keeps coming back to my mind the most. What a royal PITA to do, and most of it delt with the T-34 only parts.
No, I'm actually at the point where I'd rather rebuild/restore anything other than another VW, and it's mainly because of the lack of quality parts to do the job correctly. And going off the resto's and rebuilds I see in the forum, it's not really getting any better either. |
Me too. It's just crazy. I can dive into a Mercedes which is far more over engineered and complicated and things go like clockwork- but on a VW it's three steps forward, two steps back on a continual basis. Never used to be this way... every single replacement part unless it's NOS with no wear parts in it seems to be a constant set of 'WTF' issues any more. I've been going on and on about wanting to source Vewib parts... but even their Type 3 catalog seems to be mostly holes.
Even NOS stuff is so old it needs to be rebuilt right out of the box any more. I almost feel like I'm living in Cuba working on these at times!
Twenty years ago my wife kept saying I should specialize in VW because they were so easy and the parts were cheap. It was very tempting. These days? Pish.
I love VWs- esp. Type 3s- but I really do not look forward to having to deal with them any more. I have two myself that I am just dreading the builds on. As far as taking them on as shop work for customers- it's getting to where they are just boat anchors as far as work flow goes now. |
Oh I agree with you 100%. While it's nice that some companies/people are stepping up and reproducing some stuff, it's the other stuff that you never used to worry about that's gone to crap.
I have been rebuilding/restoring 90's GM trucks (some would even call classic) for the last 15 years now, and it seems even the Chinese/Taiwan stuff for them fits good, compared to what's offered for VWs. I really don't know why, other than the VW industry is still stuck on thinking VWs are "cheap" cars, and people will buy that crap as it's all that's out there. On the GM's, seals, plastic bits, and even other sorts of hard parts fit and work the first time, without the need to be re-worked just to work.
I hear you on the WTF moments, as I ran into some of that last summer while working on my Notch. It's really a PITA when parts that shouldn't give you trouble do give you a problem. Maybe I'm just getting too old or too set in my ways. Or maybe I'm just used to things fitting correctly when I take it out of the box. I don't know.
I've actually pared myself down to 2 type 3s now (the Notch, and Sue's Fastback), as I'm in the process of parting out my SquareVert, and for the most part they don't need a whole lot done to them now (both have been completely gone thru), so I really shouldn't need to go thru them again for quite a while.
My son has been using quite a bit of the SquareVert for his own project, as he wants to go IRS, and put a type 4 engine into it. I've been helping him when I can, but for the most part it's his project and not mine. At least with it being a custom, he doesn't really have to deal with too many re-pop parts for it.
He's also trying to get me to get me into Hondas, as they don't really need a lot of repair work. I don't know if I'm ready for that kind of change, although my wife's Accord is growing on me. At least quality parts are available for them.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Notch
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Lodi, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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Take lots of pictures and organize them.
Don't let the paint shop paint your wire loom.
Keep a list of what you have to do and cross things off of it as they are done.
If you do additional things add it to the list and cross it off (the crossed off stuff makes me feel good - like I've accomplished something!!).
Protect that new paint when trial fitting things.
Throw away all the accessories you think look cool (very few bought them and used them when new).
_________________
'64 Notchback
'67 Bug
(sunroofs both)
1964 Lavey Craft, Flatbottom V-Drive, 406 Ford |
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BSQUARE
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2004
Posts: 1876
Location: Feeling, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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Buy one that's already been restored, or a very good condition unrestored vehicle.
It will cost far less, and be on the road to enjoy much sooner. |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| BSQUARE wrote: |
Buy one that's already been restored, or a very good condition unrestored vehicle.
It will cost far less, and be on the road to enjoy much sooner. |
Yes. This is where I was glad I looked around for a while, and found a car that was in good driving condition from the start.
_________________
71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| notchback wrote: |
| My car was supposed to be over there 3 years ago, but with all your problems (like climbing trees to rescue cats), it's still sitting in my barn. |
How long can it possibly take to get a cat out of a tree? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| notchback wrote: |
| My car was supposed to be over there 3 years ago, but with all your problems (like climbing trees to rescue cats), it's still sitting in my barn. |
How long can it possibly take to get a cat out of a tree? |
You obviously don't know this cat or this tree!
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7533
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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1. If you are going to do a complete resto, start with the model/year etc. car you really want.
2. If you are painting it a dark color and/or want it nice, start with a straight one.
3. Buy rusty not wrecked.
4. Look at the car you plan on buying very carefully.
Past bodywork can hide MAJOR body damage.
5. Don't let #1 cloud your vision of #4... 
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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ibjack
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002
Posts: 2105
Location: Imperial Beach CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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Lots of great information. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has struggled getting it done.
_________________
'68 Lotus White T34 automatic sunroof
'64 Manila Yellow T34
'65 Sea Blue Square Panel
the1500club.com
Shop Lacky at the T3/34 Factory, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094313902074 |
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Me too. It's just crazy. I can dive into a Mercedes which is far more over engineered and complicated and things go like clockwork- but on a VW it's three steps forward, two steps back on a continual basis. Never used to be this way... every single replacement part unless it's NOS with no wear parts in it seems to be a constant set of 'WTF' issues any more. I've been going on and on about wanting to source Vewib parts... but even their Type 3 catalog seems to be mostly holes.
Even NOS stuff is so old it needs to be rebuilt right out of the box any more. I almost feel like I'm living in Cuba working on these at times!
Twenty years ago my wife kept saying I should specialize in VW because they were so easy and the parts were cheap. It was very tempting. These days? Pish.
I love VWs- esp. Type 3s- but I really do not look forward to having to deal with them any more. I have two myself that I am just dreading the builds on. As far as taking them on as shop work for customers- it's getting to where they are just boat anchors as far as work flow goes now. |
Oh I agree with you 100%. While it's nice that some companies/people are stepping up and reproducing some stuff, it's the other stuff that you never used to worry about that's gone to crap.
I have been rebuilding/restoring 90's GM trucks (some would even call classic) for the last 15 years now, and it seems even the Chinese/Taiwan stuff for them fits good, compared to what's offered for VWs. I really don't know why, other than the VW industry is still stuck on thinking VWs are "cheap" cars, and people will buy that crap as it's all that's out there. On the GM's, seals, plastic bits, and even other sorts of hard parts fit and work the first time, without the need to be re-worked just to work.
I hear you on the WTF moments, as I ran into some of that last summer while working on my Notch. It's really a PITA when parts that shouldn't give you trouble do give you a problem. Maybe I'm just getting too old or too set in my ways. Or maybe I'm just used to things fitting correctly when I take it out of the box. I don't know.
I've actually pared myself down to 2 type 3s now (the Notch, and Sue's Fastback), as I'm in the process of parting out my SquareVert, and for the most part they don't need a whole lot done to them now (both have been completely gone thru), so I really shouldn't need to go thru them again for quite a while.
My son has been using quite a bit of the SquareVert for his own project, as he wants to go IRS, and put a type 4 engine into it. I've been helping him when I can, but for the most part it's his project and not mine. At least with it being a custom, he doesn't really have to deal with too many re-pop parts for it.
He's also trying to get me to get me into Hondas, as they don't really need a lot of repair work. I don't know if I'm ready for that kind of change, although my wife's Accord is growing on me. At least quality parts are available for them. |
Glad I'm not the only one re-thinking the VW world. I love 'em, but most jobs turn into a can-o-worms and I perpetually have the same conversation to clients about parts quality and why 40+ y/o cars are not straight forward to work on anymore.
I've been seriously considering getting out of the repair/resto side and doing strictly custom built one-off stuff mainly because you are not constrained by the parts selection of "stock". Parts road-blocks can really suck the fun out of an otherwise enjoyable field. Like Tram & Bob have said, you end up having to custom build/re-build every damned thing anyway even if it's new or NOS, so why bother with stock??
While I don't have a huge passion for Hondas and the like, they ARE easy to work on and have parts that fit. It's the "Honda crowd", I'm not too big on. It would be nice not to go home most nights feeling like you went backwards on a project. . .
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Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Nate M. wrote: |
While I don't have a huge passion for Hondas and the like, they ARE easy to work on and have parts that fit. It's the "Honda crowd", I'm not too big on. It would be nice not to go home most nights feeling like you went backwards on a project. . . |
Yeah, I have the same issue with the "Honda crowd". This is where my son and I differ. He likes Civics and all that go fast crap that the "crowd" likes, while I actually like the Accord due to having more interior room. Plus I'm more into reliability, than going fast or being with the "in crowd". But I do like that you can get quality parts, or even dealer parts for them. Plus, I like that I don't really have to work on it constantly. I did a timing belt and water pump job on my wife's Accord, and the book says it's a 3.75hr job, that took me 4.5 hours to do, but then I had never done 1 before, and having 2 timing belts (it's got a balance shaft) complicated it a little for me. But everything went like it was supposed to, and she's already put 5K miles on it.
But I do understand what you mean on re-thinking the VW world. I too like them, but parts quality is just killing it for me. What should take an hour to do something, quickly becomes 3. Hard to make any money that way, especially when you quote the job. Then you look at what Tram's going thru, where you can dive right in doing a Merc job, and it all goes together like it's supposed to, but you're having to custom fabricate something to look stock on a VW. What's wrong with that picture?
Your carbon fiber work is truely amazing, and that might make a nice little side job/market for stuff.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| ibjack wrote: |
| Lots of great information. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has struggled getting it done. |
No Jack, you're not the only one who has struggled trying to get it done. Even those of us who can cut and weld, and even paint have problems too.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Things I wish I would have known about restoring a type |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ibjack wrote: |
| Lots of great information. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has struggled getting it done. |
No Jack, you're not the only one who has struggled trying to get it done. Even those of us who can cut and weld, and even paint have problems too. |
Jack, you are actually doing a bang up job! Here's the thing, though... you are only dealing with one of these right now. Here's what I am going through ATM with a good customer's '65 Notch and '66 Type 34:
Notch:
This is the one I converted to automatic, FI, and A/C a couple years back. It came back to me with a plethora of issues. Everything I'm listing here I covered under warranty because I know for a fact the car has only been driven 3K at most from when it got done in addition to the 500 miles the Disciple put on it road testing it back and forth:
Replaced NEW Bosch starter
Replaced NOS throttle switch
Replaced NEW trigger points
Replaced NOS MAP sensor
Replaced NOS OE fuel pump with a Volvo pump with replaceable external check valve for easier cold start
Replaced NEW right rear Bilstein shock that developed a rattle
Replaced all the NEW non- webbed fuel line that was already starting to harden and crack with BMW stuff
Replaced REMAN distributor with one I built to eliminate jumping timing mark
Resealed NEW leaky front and rear W/S seals with flowable silicone due to massive leaks around the glass and dry out/ clean/ de- mold the interior
Replaced the NEW transmission output shaft seals that were gushing final drive fluid behind BOTH inner CVs
Replaced the NEW sliding roof seal that was already falling apart on both sides of the roof.
Since October of 2014 I've already replaced the NEW signal/ reflector/ tail light seals under warranty once, and the second time I used a Wurth rubber treatment that I soaked em in before installing. Same no difference... I am going to get to do them again soon. This car is garaged...
The Type 34:
The "NEW" bigger engine started doing the insect fogger routine on start up within a few hundred miles- pulled it out and apart, and the NEW valve guides were loose in the REBUILT heads, and the NEW valve springs were weak. The machinist said it was a parts failure.
The customer wanted all new rubber seals on the car and a new headliner. Let's just say that the headliner was like a walk in the park on a paid vacation compared to the rest. The "exact fit" seals actually fit well but required work- trimming and notching to fit at the ends. The seals that I was told were good substitutes were not even close. Fortunately, I have a huge RV supply warehouse with tons of bulk weatherstripping nearby; after a lot of trial and error I got some to fit and work for most of the seals there were no replacements available for. Even then, getting everything to fit correctly with new rubber required pulling the whole car apart and re aligning things- doors, lids, the tilt of the window channels, etc. It took all day for several days. How do you possibly charge enough for this without looking like a rip off artist???
Now I am battling trying to figure out WHY a car that makes your ears pop when you shut the door and has almost zero wind noise going down the highway at 75 still takes on water through the left side hood hinge bucket onto the driver's foot and why the left door panel gets sopping wet on the bottom 1/4 into the pocket even with a super heavy duty vapor barrier glued to the door behind it. 
If all I was doing was VW I would retire because I'd think I was getting senile and just forgetting everything I ever learned the last 40 years, but like I said, classic Mercedes don't seem to have these issues- ev- ver.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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