Confusion: The final word on Rust

[epowell]

Hi guys...

I have been searching the archives and the net for the final word on rust - I'd like to know that I've done the right thing to halt the rust on my van, and that once I've put in my new interior, the rust won't return at least over-night.

It seems to me that we can catagorize rust in to 3 catagories:
1) Accessible rust
2) Semi-accessible rust
3) Inaccessible rust

Accessible rust is pretty obvious - just get it out... ...replace any holes with new metal... ....then paint and protect.

Inaccessible rust seems also pretty obvious... if you simply can not reach it then the best you can do it goop or spray on/in there (deep into seams or into crannies in the underbody) some sort of rust inhibiting wax/oil.

But what to do about the Semi-accessible rust - for me the confusion comes when I hear seemingly two contradictory pieces of advice: 1) one person says beware of thick layers of anti-rust goop under your van - get it all off and see what is under it, and if you find rust - deal with it!... 2) and other person says lightly sand rusty areas under your van then spray with anti-rust goop. [Is the answer to yes, goop on anti-rust stuff on these areas, but then once every few years, clean it all off again, clean out whatever rust has developed, then goop it up again?]

So which is correct, and what finally to do with areas of semi-accessible rust - areas which are very difficult to reach - and rust repair areas that can not be perfectly cleaned free of rust... areas that will end up for years behind insulation and wall material... ??

Thanks
Ed
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[Merian]

Rust can always be made Accessible by drilling a hole - or just wait for it to perforate thru on its own

not sure I get your query - if there might be rust under something like undercoating you can clean it off to check and reseal; if you are sure there is none then leave it

if you are 50/50 on that contingency then...

[epowell]

[epowell]

What I mean by "accessible" is accessible enough to scrape off completely.
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[Merian]

it is NEVER completely sealed off to H20 - vapor can permeate almost anywhere - even thru Tygon tubing (at a low rate)

you need to worry about O2 anyway, which is even worse

where is your Van - if in Czech Republic that should be a place where you can get nice cheap labor to work on it

[epowell]

Not extremely cheap, like India or something - but auto repairs are at least 50% cheaper than in the US... maybe 66% cheaper even. IP overhaul is about 150USD.

But I don't want to hire people to do anything to my van that I can do myself - that was the whole point of getting a T3. Otherwise I would have been more wise to get a newer vehicle.

Unless I am missing something, my van have very little rust. Yes it has had a lot of rust repairs and welding done, but they did a pretty good job and just some small spots have returned. The main frame beams seem totally free of rust. And I'd like to keep them that way!

Maybe I should scrape the black tar type stuff off one portion of the underbody main beams just to test and make sure the beams really are rust free....?
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[Merian]

if you want to, sure - you must not be having an adequate number of mechanical breakdowns to be so bored

but where? is there a suspicious bump anywhere?

there are also known high-liklihood rust areas:
others know better than me (fortunately for me), but...

- seam behind front wheels
- inside behind the vent & kitchen in general

do you own a pressure washer or have access to a steam cleaner?

[MsTaboo]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=13
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[epowell]

[IdahoDoug]

I wouldn't undertake a powerwashing of a vehicle in winter conditions. It forces water into all manner of cracks and voids (and carries with it any salty deposits that weren't as deep into the cracks). And unless you can park it in a heated environment, the water in the thousands of nooks and crannies will be there for months.

That kind of thing is best done in the heat of summer.

I advocate a sane approach to rust and some do not. To me, cleaning it in the summer, then scraping loose undercoating until it is no longer popping off due to aged bonding, then using a spray product to recoat makes sense.

On rust repair, there are those who believe the nickname "cancer" for rust literally means it has a life of itself and can grow like a cancer. Those people will cut out perfectly good sheet metal with a rust spot here and there and weld in new sheet metal - not realizing all you have to do is sand to metal, recoat and fill voids with metal only at the spot. So know what you are doing here - it is not a living thing and it is not rocket science.
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[djkeev]

You never eradicate rust. You greatly slow it's progress.

Rust inside the framing, around the windshield and side windows?
Little you can really do except drill some access holes and spray in a rust encapsulating product.

There is also no "correct" answer, what I do, what insyncro does, what Ben does, what XY & Z do can all produce good results using completely different products and methodologies.

It comes down to educating yourself and choosing a process that you are comfortable doing and that you feel works..... Then run with it!

Some methods and products simply don't work...... Or were used incorrectly and failed to work..... User error.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[Merian]

yes - it's for a lazy summer day

why not work on the throttle body while waiting for summer, tho it won't hurt to get it on a lift and check things over carefully - take pics

hose down every bolt and brake connection with Kroil

use a stiff hand brush to investigate things now


what I do is very minimal - but I don't live in the salt belt and my Vanagon has never done so either - I tracked all the 6 POs

if you are in BC with the Van, you can likely do what I do - inspect carefully; knock off any loose undercoating & touch it up

check kitchen back o' town area, etc.

[Merian]

some disagreement with both of the 2 worthies above:

tho rust it is not a living thing - scientists have found bacteria that live in rust and exacerbate the rust


you can completely eradicate rust, but as a practical matter it is very hard to do so permanently

people who think otherwise need to spend more time outside the rust belt

[epowell]

[epowell]

[outcaststudios]

for the most part understanding rust means having a deep understanding of metals and particularly iron-carbon alloys such as steel and its substructures. the mechanism of rust is obvious enough,water (contains o2) oxidizes(gains electrons) from iron(the reducing agent in the reaction)readily. the trick is to stop that from ever happening which is of course futile as that is why you cant name one single production method that has successfully avoided the reaction entirely(usuing iron steel alloys of course i dont mean resin etc), its a fact of our position on the planet in this atmosphere etc etc. the best processes are working on a substructure level like austenetic and martensitic , or graphoidal to name a few. however ,your cars arent going to be made from that(unless you're irish, re:deloreans lol) galvanizing doesnt always hold especially at deeper ares of a shape,nor does plating which also is limited by the geometry of wave functions to enter 90º spaces (standing waves) so the real solution is to only keep the vehicle in a perpetual vacuum and thus you will eliminate its contact with O2 and by default chlorine,sodium (seawater)and any other common catalyzing agent! everything will rust. to beat it for real involves leaving the planet
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[djkeev]

Why not repair a rusted frame?

Often the worst spot is but the worse of many many spots.

I have a 93 Toyota 4x4 pickup with a five speed and the 3.0 engine.
It runs GREAT!!!!
But the rust is ever present. I missed the frame "recall" so the rear tails of my frame are rusting away, my lower front control arms are perforated with rust.
The rust is EVERYWHERE!!!!

There is no simple one step repair for this truck. To fix the frame is simply a waste of time. This is a future parts truck.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[epowell]

[epowell]

[djkeev]