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jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
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 Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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I dropped my transaxle, lowering it from above with the 2x4 jig and winch that Kourt suggested I build. I can't imagine doing it another way now, I didn't fear for my life even once!
Well, here's the problem though, I can't separate the differential and transmission. I wrestled with it for two hours. I tried holding it in the air by the diff and bouncing it, tried on the ground between my legs, yanking on the diff with my feet on the transmission, tried 2x4s and light hammering. Those suckers are bonded.
There is some history here that I'm sure caused this: stranded in NM I had to work on the transmission alone and had to drop and reinstall just the tranny for weight reasons. Putting it back together, while tightening down the tranny/diff nuts, it kind of "popped into place". Dropping it this time revealed that I broke at least the oil pump drive on the torque converter (picture below).
Does anyone have any suggestion on how to proceed? I'm definitely replacing the torque converter, but I still need to get the transaxle apart. Hopefully with minimal further damage.
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1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
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rubbachicken
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Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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go find a BIG plastic mallet, or a chunk of hard wood, if you have the bolts that hold the two sections out, i think there are only 4, there are still dowels, and they will be tight on them, you will likely need to beat on it
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jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
| go find a BIG plastic mallet, or a chunk of hard wood, if you have the bolts that hold the two sections out, i think there are only 4, there are still dowels, and they will be tight on them, you will likely need to beat on it |
Okay I already tried using a 2x4 and metal hammer but mallet I'm sure has better force transfer. Yes the 4 nuts are off the studs, and the two sections are separated about 5mm (enough to show the yellow band on the large diff/tranny o-ring) and there is about 4mm of play when I try to yank them apart.
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1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10252
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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Kourt, or JK - either of you guys have a simple diagram to make that winch setup? That looks like an excellent setup! I have a boat trailer winch and since it's winter I can "borrow" if off the trailer for the next couple months but I want to ensure it will fit with what you've done. Great call.
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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kourt
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1948
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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Jake,
It may be necessary to finesse the gear shift linkage to a different position to get the two halves disengaged--so try that for a bit.
Also be ready to remove the 2nd gear brake band cover, plus the bottom pan and valve body, so that you can observe the internals. There may be friction in the 2nd gear brake band or action in the linkage that is hanging you up.
You can use a rubber or plastic mallet to drive the turbine shaft gently in or out at the torque converter seal--there should be plenty of play in that area.
The last time I had this problem I laid the whole transaxle flat on a 4x8 sheet of plywood (anything with low friction will work), put wood cribbing under the transmission pan to raise its level, stood most of my weight on top of the transmission with one foot, and tapped, with gentle but firm hits with a 10 lb hammer, the available flat, load bearing faces on the differential. I used an old piece of cutting board to slightly deaden the blows. The area around the starter bezel worked well. I also used a large carpenter's cat's paw to pry the halves loose--there are one or two spots where that can be done safely.
Threading a long, thin cheater bar in the differential vent openings and working with a partner is also another avenue to try.
You can crack the differential housing if you are incautious, so work with care and keep the beer drinking to a sane level. Let me know how it goes. I have time this week to stop by and help.
Doug,
The winch is essentially two 3' long 2x4 boards, with a 6" 2x4 inserted in between them at both ends, and bolted on each end with a 5" long carriage bolt.
Top view:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXX[--OPEN GAP HERE--]XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The boat winch is bolted to another 6" 2x4 that simply floats (and stays in place by friction) in the middle gap. You lay down a few pieces of 2x4 cribbing fore and aft of the open engine bay (to raise the whole work plane up a bit), lay the winch frame on the cribbing, slip the winch block into the slot, feed the winch hook through the slot to the transmission, loop it around the trans (or hook it to a small piece of webbing threaded through the differential vents and knotted to make a loop--that's what I do), and then snug up the winch. Loosen your fasteners separate the transaxle and lower it down. This winch setup is stout enough to hold the entire differential mass for short periods of time.
I have used this same winch to raise and lower engines--waterboxer and Bostig.
Hope this helps.
kourt |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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I recall a thread where someone had done something similar and the turbine shaft was also damaged keeping the two from separating. I recall another thread cautioning a member about the complications trying to reinstall the automatic section with the transaxle bolted up.
I would pull the torque convertor and examine the turbine shaft in relation to the stator support and the side views of the Bentley. Good luck.
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djkeev
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jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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Woo! Got those suckers apart!! I tried mallets, wedges, partial disassembly, playing with the shift linkage, and finally decided I needed more force than I could impart, so I found corresponding flat planes on the housings and worked two bottle jacks simultaneously. That did the trick!
It was definitely the turbine shaft giving me trouble, it is still stuck in the transmission. I imagine I bonded it to something when I installed the transmission with the diff still in. Next time I'll know how to make a wood/winch jig and drop the whole thing right by myself!
Next steps: disassembly, discovery, and parts ordering.
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1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
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djkeev
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Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10252
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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That's innovative - well done. Those jacks were a good call. They can put enormous force on something, then a few taps and its loose. Nice.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission and differential stuck together |
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Thanks! Glad I finally got it. Here's what was sticking, a bearing behind the forward clutch drum:
Triaging parts, now.
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1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
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