Restoring My New (to me) 1967 Bug

[67ctbug]

Just read that Avenger. It helps a lot, but I seem to be doing everything it says.
I made the holes for a plug weld, I start welding and get the "good" sound not the bacon one, and the welds look good. I haven't burned through the metal either. I don't see where I'm going wrong with this.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[67rustavenger]

I suck at welding. I would go up a heat setting and re-tune the welder. I always have pieces of sheet metal to practice on. Most of the time I'm a little too hot and manage to burn a hole through my practice piece.
Make sure that you have good clean grounding. Have the ground clamp close to your weld zone if possible. Make sure that you get good penetration on your practice piece that should be nearly the same thickness of the parts your planning on welding together. If your not getting good penetration up the heat range re-tune and try again till you get it right.
Another read for ya. Scroll down to DaleM's post there is a link to a welding tips and tricks page.
Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[67rustavenger]

What brand and model of metal gluing machine are you using?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[67ctbug]

It's Chicago electric wire feed flux core from harbor freight. It was $90. Went to &70. And didn't sell so I got it for $35.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[67rustavenger]

Never used a flux-core. I'm not going to be much more help than what I have already posted. If you are using the HF flux-core wire, it can be a problem with quality. Better if you can get a spool from your local welding supply store. Like AirGas<----- My local guy's are kind of snobbish. The only reason I use them is that they are literally 4 blocks from my driveway. Home Depot carries better quality flux-core wire than you can get from HF.
My CL find welder is a Clarke E-130 mig. 25/75 mix Co2/Argon.
Not as good as a Lincoln or Miller but works for my needs.
On your practice piece, try dragging the torch while welding. If that doesn't work well for ya, try pushing the torch and see it that helps a bit.
Dragging the torch gives you a colder weld. Pushing will preheat the metal ahead of your stitch line. I hope that makes sense?
Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[67ctbug]

I don't use harbor freight flux core, I use Lincoln electric. I'll try more later. I think this may require better quality pans because everything on the bug has been put on with this welder.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[67ctbug]

I'm going to continue on the floors tomorrow as long as it doesn't rain. I'm having a really tough time This should be fun
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[RLFD213]

I did my floor pans with a flux core because that was all I had at the time. If you're not building a show car it's fine. I wouldn't recommend flux core for body work at all. It's not precise and it's a lot of clean up and grinding. Take some test strips of metal and practice welding them to get your settings right. Make sure you have a ground as close to the weld as you can and make sure both areas are clean. I first tried with weld through primer and the weld wouldn't stick. Good luck and keep us updated with how you're doing.

[flyboy161]

Are you trying to burn through the pan into the tunnel lip, or did you punch holes in the pan first?

When I did mine with the HF welder, I used a pneumatic flange / punch tool to punch holes around the perimeter of the pan where it lays on the tunnel and at the front and back as well

Then lay the pan in place and do the hold down trick. The puddle forms on the lip of the tunnel and spreads to the pan. Wire speed about 3.5 to 4 and low power.

If you don't the thinner pan gets too hot and the lip not hot enough. The lip on the tunnel is a lot thicker being double layers of thicker material. You end up with no penetration and the welds pop loose.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483

[67ctbug]

I drilled holes in the pan and am trying to weld it to the lip coming off of the tunnel. I'm on a really tight budget at the moment so I'm working with what I've got. What is the hold down trick?
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[67ctbug]

[flyboy161]

I hold the tip of the welder square to the hole so it sits on the pan evenly and pushes the pan down on the lip. Squeeze the trigger for 5-10 seconds, sounds like bacon sizzling. Let off the trigger, wait a few seconds and move to the next hole
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483

[67ctbug]

Oh ok. I was doing something like that, but they didn't hold. These pans are terrible. They won't fit flat on the lip and they don't even sit up against the tunnel.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[EMPIImp69]

[67ctbug]

Oh trust me I want an argon/co2 welder. It's just a cylinder+gas+a new welder is so much money right now that I really just need to use this and hope for the best.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[67ctbug]

I've made progress on my floors . I've decided to use what I've got, so I will be done with them soon. Here they are at the moment.

_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[EA812]

The welds would work better if u sand off all paint and weld bare metal. I had similar issues in the early days.
_________________
Project 66 Daily Driver http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538786&highlight=
Herbie build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=336044

[67ctbug]

[EA812]

I wish I drilled holes like you did! I didn't totally trust my welds after that so I also put teck screws in then cut off the part that was going through. You could do the teck screws to hold the pan's in place when you weld. It also helps if the metal is tight.
_________________
Project 66 Daily Driver http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538786&highlight=
Herbie build
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=336044

[flyboy161]

The holes are a good thing, mainly because you are dealing with a very thin piece of metal being welded to a thicker piece of metal. The lip along the tunnel is easily twice the thickness of the pan, if not more.

Now, I'm not picking on you or your welds, but I want to help with though with the spatter I see around your welds. Spatter is caused by one of three things, two of which you can control. 1. Amperage is too high. 2. Voltage is too low. 3. Wire speed is too fast.

You can control amperage and wire speed. Turn them both down. I'd recommend a setting of 3-4 on the wire speed and low on the amperage setting. Spatter as shown above occurs when the wire bounces in the pool of molten metal sending bits of slag flying everywhere. In other words the weld is too cold. Also, the welder has a collar around the tip. Trim the wire to slightly inside that collar. About 1/4" is what I use for stick out of the tip. The flux inside the wire creates a gas that helps to make the welds cleaner. Hold the collar flat against the pan, no gap around it at all. Hell, use the collar to press the pan against the lip you are welding to. When you get it right, you'll have very little or no sparks flying and the process will sound like sizzling bacon (without the popping), maybe like water drops sizzling in a hot skillet.

Practice, practice, practice. Run down to Lowe's, pick up some metal about the thickness of your pan and practice the technique on the metal before you do the pan. Try different settings. You don't want spatter and you don't want blow through of the metal. You want a nice little pool of molten metal that fills the hole you punched/drilled and flows slightly over onto the pan metal. Like this:

_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483