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Brake bleeding
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Bob Hollingsworth
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

I kind of hate to start a new blog because I know some will point me towards old material. But, easily confused is my middle name so forgive me with the important subject of brakes. My car is a 65 Beetle.

I have read a number of old blogs in which there are differing opinions. Here we go:

1. Is there not a definitive method from Volkswagen for bleeding a brake system when installing a new master cylinder? Some say bench bleed, some say not necessary.

2. I have installed all new soft brake lines, wheel cylinders, shoes, spring kits, etc and now in the process of adding a new master cylinder.

3. I drained the reservour and blew out all the hard lines so as to start with a clean system. Because of this last procedure, leaving nothing but air in the system, is there something I should consider so that reintroducing fluid to all 4 corners will go smoothly, leaving nothing but fluid in the system and eliminating all air?

I understand the procedures for bleeding and much prefer bleeding with the MC installed. I just want to be sure that all air is expelled in a easy and efficient manner. Thanks
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grandpa pete
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Read about " beer bleeding "

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...r+bleeding

Worked for me ; many different methods ; find one that works for you .
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

1. Yes, VW put out both Workshop manuals that were originally only allowed to VW mechanics. VW sold to the public the "Official Service Manuals" which was a watered down version of the Workshop manuals. Personally have only had one time that the MC needed to be bench bled and just did that on the VW at the time.

2. Good!

3. Helps to know if you have single circuit or dual circuit master cylinder.

4. Beer bleeding will help with the bench bleeding and might completely bleed the system, but good to have on hand the knowledge of how to bleed the system you have via the pedal.
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widefivebug
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

grandpa pete wrote:
Read about " beer bleeding "

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...r+bleeding

Worked for me ; many different methods ; find one that works for you .



I wasn't aware they called it beer bleeding but grandpa is right on target here. I just did my brakes using the gravity bleed method. Absolutely every piece on my car is new including dual master and disc brakes. I struggled a bit getting fluid to one caliper on the rear which I had to use a little pedal pumping, but eventually it worked fine. I let mine bleed for an hour each and did the entire brake system 3 times. Its not that hard to do and brake fluid is cheap. I didn't bench bleed my master cylinder first either.
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

40 plus years we never once had to bench bleed a MC.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

I gravity bleed first, then do a final bleed, using an assistant to rest and hold the brake pedal.

On dual circuit mc's, bleed the fronts first.

Tim
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grandpa pete
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

vwnutt wrote:

I wasn't aware they called it beer bleeding


"beer bleeding " was the term used by " Bobnotch " a type3 genius who suggested it to me ...his directions specifically instructed me to "go have a beer while I waited for each wheel cylinder to fill ". Shocked Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

That's funny, being as I gave up alcohol a long time ago I don't think I would make to the fourth wheel. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

sometimes pressure bleeding from the mc with about 5-8psi has worked in the past for stuborn bleeding issues!
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Bob Hollingsworth
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Apparantly my last post didn't go through.

Thanks for the replies. I'll be trying the "beer bleed" and then the normal bleed procedure. I'm using a new single stage mc. I may upgrade to a dual mc in the future. Is there anything particularly trickey in doing so? Is there any hardline replacement involved?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Bob Hollingsworth wrote:
Apparantly my last post didn't go through.

Thanks for the replies. I'll be trying the "beer bleed" and then the normal bleed procedure. I'm using a new single stage mc. I may upgrade to a dual mc in the future. Is there anything particularly trickey in doing so? Is there any hardline replacement involved?


You may not be replacing hard lines but you'll be taking them loose along with reservoir supply and brake light switch. If you install new rubber donut for reservoir wet it with brake fluid, assemble wet. Inside the car the two bolts holding the M/C have spacers inside the bulkhead,don't lose them don't try to tighten without you'll crush the bulkhead. Use flare wrenches to loosen the hard lines and if they look corroded use penetrating oil first. Remove the fuel tank to do this job it makes it so much easier.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Hope I'm not being rude here but can I ask a q?
When installing a d/c master cylinder to replace the s/c do you split the brake lines front to back or diagonally opposite? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

brake lines go front/front, rear/rear
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

I should have been clearer with the dual mc upgrade. What does the dual upgrade entail? Are new hardlines required?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Quote:
do you split the brake lines front to back or diagonally opposite

Had a '84 Scirocco that had that. Something about helping prevent a spin when one circuit failed. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Bob Hollingsworth wrote:
I should have been clearer with the dual mc upgrade. What does the dual upgrade entail? Are new hardlines required?



Do a search this has been done. You'll see people using Volvo parts and locating the fluid reservoir on top which means you'll have to crawl under the car to service. Best to find a 67 bug and rob the reservoir and dual lines, if you do this the mod is nearly invisible and looks neat and tidy. There are pics if you search. It's a worthwhile mod like going to tapered roller bearings instead of balls up front. Makes the car a tad safer. Yes you'll be bending some lines but it's a good excuse to just replace them along with the flex hoses if they are more than 10 years old or maybe some shitty off brand. If you use the 67 reservoir you'll take a die grinder and enlarge the opening behind the spare tire.this is why it's best to just look at a 67 and see how vw did it.
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Bob Hollingsworth
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Thanks. I did the search and found several blogs as you said.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Bob Hollingsworth wrote:
I should have been clearer with the dual mc upgrade. What does the dual upgrade entail? Are new hardlines required?


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...r+cylinder
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Bob Hollingsworth
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

Thanks from one grandpa to another. Your blog is the first one that came up when I did a search. I have it saved to the archives for future reference when I need something to do.
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grandpa pete
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding Reply with quote

great info in new post here ...page 4 ; 3/4 way down

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
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