Author |
Message |
Bob Hollingsworth Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2014 Posts: 77 Location: United States
|
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: Brake bleeding |
|
|
I kind of hate to start a new blog because I know some will point me towards old material. But, easily confused is my middle name so forgive me with the important subject of brakes. My car is a 65 Beetle.
I have read a number of old blogs in which there are differing opinions. Here we go:
1. Is there not a definitive method from Volkswagen for bleeding a brake system when installing a new master cylinder? Some say bench bleed, some say not necessary.
2. I have installed all new soft brake lines, wheel cylinders, shoes, spring kits, etc and now in the process of adding a new master cylinder.
3. I drained the reservour and blew out all the hard lines so as to start with a clean system. Because of this last procedure, leaving nothing but air in the system, is there something I should consider so that reintroducing fluid to all 4 corners will go smoothly, leaving nothing but fluid in the system and eliminating all air?
I understand the procedures for bleeding and much prefer bleeding with the MC installed. I just want to be sure that all air is expelled in a easy and efficient manner. Thanks |
|
Back to top |
|
|
grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
1. Yes, VW put out both Workshop manuals that were originally only allowed to VW mechanics. VW sold to the public the "Official Service Manuals" which was a watered down version of the Workshop manuals. Personally have only had one time that the MC needed to be bench bled and just did that on the VW at the time.
2. Good!
3. Helps to know if you have single circuit or dual circuit master cylinder.
4. Beer bleeding will help with the bench bleeding and might completely bleed the system, but good to have on hand the knowledge of how to bleed the system you have via the pedal. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
widefivebug Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2003 Posts: 330
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
I wasn't aware they called it beer bleeding but grandpa is right on target here. I just did my brakes using the gravity bleed method. Absolutely every piece on my car is new including dual master and disc brakes. I struggled a bit getting fluid to one caliper on the rear which I had to use a little pedal pumping, but eventually it worked fine. I let mine bleed for an hour each and did the entire brake system 3 times. Its not that hard to do and brake fluid is cheap. I didn't bench bleed my master cylinder first either. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
40 plus years we never once had to bench bleed a MC. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
I gravity bleed first, then do a final bleed, using an assistant to rest and hold the brake pedal.
On dual circuit mc's, bleed the fronts first.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
|
Back to top |
|
|
grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
vwnutt wrote: |
I wasn't aware they called it beer bleeding |
"beer bleeding " was the term used by " Bobnotch " a type3 genius who suggested it to me ...his directions specifically instructed me to "go have a beer while I waited for each wheel cylinder to fill ". _________________ 63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
|
Back to top |
|
|
widefivebug Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2003 Posts: 330
|
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
That's funny, being as I gave up alcohol a long time ago I don't think I would make to the fourth wheel. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
subhuman Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2008 Posts: 538 Location: north carolina
|
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
sometimes pressure bleeding from the mc with about 5-8psi has worked in the past for stuborn bleeding issues! _________________ 63 restomod build
http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq37/johnnysubhuman/?albumview=slideshow
you can have everything you want, just don't want so much!
"the wrong way always seems the more reasonable."
george moore
1963 type1
2002 Subaru Wrx
never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
Mark Twain |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2014 Posts: 77 Location: United States
|
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Apparantly my last post didn't go through.
Thanks for the replies. I'll be trying the "beer bleed" and then the normal bleed procedure. I'm using a new single stage mc. I may upgrade to a dual mc in the future. Is there anything particularly trickey in doing so? Is there any hardline replacement involved? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth wrote: |
Apparantly my last post didn't go through.
Thanks for the replies. I'll be trying the "beer bleed" and then the normal bleed procedure. I'm using a new single stage mc. I may upgrade to a dual mc in the future. Is there anything particularly trickey in doing so? Is there any hardline replacement involved? |
You may not be replacing hard lines but you'll be taking them loose along with reservoir supply and brake light switch. If you install new rubber donut for reservoir wet it with brake fluid, assemble wet. Inside the car the two bolts holding the M/C have spacers inside the bulkhead,don't lose them don't try to tighten without you'll crush the bulkhead. Use flare wrenches to loosen the hard lines and if they look corroded use penetrating oil first. Remove the fuel tank to do this job it makes it so much easier. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cbdubs Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Scarborough UK
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Hope I'm not being rude here but can I ask a q?
When installing a d/c master cylinder to replace the s/c do you split the brake lines front to back or diagonally opposite? Thanks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
brake lines go front/front, rear/rear _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
|
sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2014 Posts: 77 Location: United States
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
I should have been clearer with the dual mc upgrade. What does the dual upgrade entail? Are new hardlines required? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5593 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Quote: |
do you split the brake lines front to back or diagonally opposite |
Had a '84 Scirocco that had that. Something about helping prevent a spin when one circuit failed. _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth wrote: |
I should have been clearer with the dual mc upgrade. What does the dual upgrade entail? Are new hardlines required? |
Do a search this has been done. You'll see people using Volvo parts and locating the fluid reservoir on top which means you'll have to crawl under the car to service. Best to find a 67 bug and rob the reservoir and dual lines, if you do this the mod is nearly invisible and looks neat and tidy. There are pics if you search. It's a worthwhile mod like going to tapered roller bearings instead of balls up front. Makes the car a tad safer. Yes you'll be bending some lines but it's a good excuse to just replace them along with the flex hoses if they are more than 10 years old or maybe some shitty off brand. If you use the 67 reservoir you'll take a die grinder and enlarge the opening behind the spare tire.this is why it's best to just look at a 67 and see how vw did it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2014 Posts: 77 Location: United States
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Thanks. I did the search and found several blogs as you said. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Hollingsworth Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2014 Posts: 77 Location: United States
|
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding |
|
|
Thanks from one grandpa to another. Your blog is the first one that came up when I did a search. I have it saved to the archives for future reference when I need something to do. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|