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1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D
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Jak3-719
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Hello all!

A couple months ago, I came accross an oval on craigslist. But, this was no normal oval. This was an oval that I had attempted to buy before I purchased my '66 beetle, but missed out on. So, after a couple years of blood sweat and tears towards my '66, I made the difficult decision to part ways with it and pick up the oval I almost got in the first place - finally.

The history of the car is somewhat patchy. Im not certain where it initially came from, or even the name of the owner before the guy I got it from. BUT, from what I understand anyway, a local CO VW enthusiast picked up the car and began the restoration. Unfortunately, he became sick and eventually passed away, leaving the car to (I believe) his son - but not before performing the rust repair, paint and body, and gathering a TON of parts. After sitting for 15+ years in storage, the son decided it was time to part with the car. That is the point in time I was first attempting to buy the car. I remember talking with the guy via email a few times back and forth, but ultimately missing out on the car at that time.

Fast forward three years - car is back up on Craigslist! Not only is it back up for sale, it appears as though not a lot of work had been done to the car over the three year period. I remember getting really excited at the thought of finally getting the oval that got away.... So, in babbling to my wife about the car about the possibility of trading my '66 for it, she completely blows my mind by saying "you know, why dont you just sell the bug so you have some money to put into the new one?"

....LIGHT BULB!!

So, sure enough I list the 66 for sale - and it sells. A few weeks and a long tow later, the one that got away was tucked in safe and sound in my garage - along with a bus load of extra parts to throw in it/sell to fund the build.

Off the top of my head, some of the goodies I got with the car include:

-All rubber/seals/gaskets for the car
-2 sets of all windows for the car - with the exception of the oval and the windshield.
-2 engines - a seized 36hp case, and another mid-50's 36horse case, cranks and cam. Also a '64/65 ish 1200 40horse. Both complete longblocks, top to bottom.
-boxes upon boxes of extra parts/tidbits. Everything from an OG copper hurst shifter, to 6 or 7 pope's noses, 4-5 pairs of snowflakes, headlights, grab handles, sun visors, door handles/window cranks, ash trays, glovebox doors, etc etc etc. Literally overwhelming.

Now, there are a couple discrepancies with the car.... Unfortunately it doesnt have the W decklid it should, and it's also sporting a 3tab hood instead of the 4tab. BUT, that being said it really doesnt bother me. I plan to drive the hell out of this car and make it my own. I could care less if it's 100% correct - I just want to drive it!

These are from the day after I got her home:

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And the first order of business (besides a good bath) was getting the dash somewhat together:

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I've done some more work to her since these pics, more to follow when I get home - and updates to come as well! I'll try to get on and update as often as I can. Plans are to get her back on the road sometime this summer - hopefully sooner than later!

-Jake
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René R.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Congratulations on scoring the one that got away! It's obvious you're happy about that. Very Happy

I look forward to following this build. I agree completely with your plan to make it a driver and not nitpick every detail. That said, the deck lid would really bother me. I'm not a purist and there are a lot of things 'wrong' with my oval but I do like that it looks basically stock from the outside. The W lid really adds a lot to the appearance.

But your mileage may differ. The bottom line is to have it your way and to enjoy it! It looks like you have a great foundation to build upon.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Yea, it kind of bothers me too - but not enough to spend the money on getting a W and then paying to get it bodyworked and paint matched.... In my mind, that's all money I could put into it elsewhere!

I do have some pretty sweet plans for it though, I think.... It'll be low and clean. Wide smoothies out back and a AMR500 supercharged single/dual port with a weber 40 dcoe. BUT, before it gets to that point I have to get the wiring redone, the rest of the windows in, the suspension setup ordered and installed, make sure it'll stop as well as it goes and go back over all of the previously finished work.

Got my work cut out for me, that's for sure.... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

You need this:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1889425
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Jak3-719
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

That would be great, but like I said there's a lot of other things I'd rather spend that money on. Like new P&C for my 1776!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

You have the "bonus" of a '67 wide rear axle, and most likely also the '67 transmission with its 4.12 final drive ratio.

Starting on a fresh painted shell on which all rust work has been done is a huge benefit. What kind of rear apron does it have- an "H" or a later style?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

This is really cool, and I WILL be following your build...but please....for the LOVE OF GOD. While the Oval is all apart, put a dam W lid on it! At least get the car LOOKING correct, then do the rest of the interior bits. Man, an Oval with a 60s lid = YUCK Sorry bro not hating, just please at least get a W lid. Killin me, Smalls!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

I'm going to have to agree with Lucille . A later deck lid on an oval is just Crying or Very sad , but it's your car and I get where you're coming from.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
You have the "bonus" of a '67 wide rear axle, and most likely also the '67 transmission with its 4.12 final drive ratio.

Starting on a fresh painted shell on which all rust work has been done is a huge benefit. What kind of rear apron does it have- an "H" or a later style?


It's got a later style apron on it, definitely been repaired. Front apron has had some work done to it too. I didn't know that about the trans, how can you tell? That's not going to play well with my plans of 8" rear wheels.... Kinda bummed now! I had planned on getting a built trans for it to cope with the power from the engine/charger, but was planning on delaying it until a hit further down the road.

I get what you're all saying about the deklid - I do. But like I said, getting one, finding the paint code and getting it bodyworked and sprayed is a pricey endeavor - one I'd rather hold off on until I get it on the road. This isn't a stock color either, allthough it looks very similar. It has a fair amount of metallic and pearls in it. Plus, the fact that I have no idea who, where, when or what color it is I'm kind of left with keeping the one I have as the best alternative. For now. Honestly, I'd like to do a CF deck lid on it - but that's just me! Might wind up being cheaper in the long rund, honestly...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

WOW! It's been a while since I posted a reply - life kinda got in the way a bit (as it tends to).

The original 1776 fell through, so I traded a beater car for a "mystery stroker" motor a few months back. Turns out it was actually an 1835 with an as41 case, cut BIG to 95mm. It sat in a shop for a while, but after tearing it down I saw it had some goodies - like a counterbalanced forged crank and an unidentified cam. I plan to throw some 94's in it and make a 1915 from it when I can. I also got a set of IDA's for it for a steal from a buddy in CA that I'll be using instead of my original plan of the supercharged 1776.

Also got a good deal on some short axles and tubes to take advantage of my 67 trans setup, but still be able to use the 8" wheels I wanted to (which are on their way).

Got the sound deadening installed on the pan and rear parcel tray as well. Went with 80mil Noico black sound deadening, and it's absolutely fantastic. Crazy how much of a difference it makes! Then I've also started on installing a Watson's Streetworks wiring kit as well.

Got a bunch of stuff ordered for it and on it's way - 4" narrowed beam from Valley Autowerks and 2" adjustable drop plates from Limebug, and Empi front disc brakes (still wide-5) and drop spindles.

My wife got me a set of headlights and lenses for Christmas, and then a set of snowflakes for our anniversary (I was an idiot and sold ALL of my snowflake parts at a swap meet...).

Came across some less-than-good bodywork while doing my wiring install and decided I wanted to tackle replacing the front spare tire well and fuel tank base, only to find out as I was installing the replacement panel that it appears the frame head is tweaked and pushed back a tad on the driver's side. Made a couple measurements and figured out that the factory beam is definitely bent, so Im waiting on my new beam to get here so I can do some more measuring and confirm. At this point Im expecting I'll have to replace the frame head on the car - which is less than ideal, to say the least.

Other than that, and between working on this and my buddies' 61 rag, I'm hoping to have it on the road or at least running sometime this summer....

No pics with this update, but I do have a TON on my phone. I'll hop on later and get the thread all the way up to date!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Glad to see you still have the oval, and are pursuing completion.

I could tell it has a wide-axle '67 because how close the rear wheels/tires come to the edge of the fenders. Something you learn to identify with experience, compared to the earlier, narrower axles where you have like a fist-width of space between tire and fender edge. Also, the rear drums have those 5 ribs which you can see with the hubcap off. That style started in '65, IIRC; earlier drums have a smooth surface.

What heads will you use for those IDAs? Hopefully at least 40x35's like in the early Cal-Look days. Also, the case being bored to 95mm- the diameter of the case holes for 92mm cylinders (also for 90.5) is 96mm- maybe you missed a millimeter when measuring? 94's require a case hole of 97.25mm unless you buy 94's that are machined down at the base to fit into the "92" hole. Info found here- http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=1_31
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

If you're going to be doing some re work up front, now would be the time to look for a W decklid. They really do make the look of an oval...All that aside, looks like a good start.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Glad to see you still have the oval, and are pursuing completion.

I could tell it has a wide-axle '67 because how close the rear wheels/tires come to the edge of the fenders. Something you learn to identify with experience, compared to the earlier, narrower axles where you have like a fist-width of space between tire and fender edge. Also, the rear drums have those 5 ribs which you can see with the hubcap off. That style started in '65, IIRC; earlier drums have a smooth surface.

What heads will you use for those IDAs? Hopefully at least 40x35's like in the early Cal-Look days. Also, the case being bored to 95mm- the diameter of the case holes for 92mm cylinders (also for 90.5) is 96mm- maybe you missed a millimeter when measuring? 94's require a case hole of 97.25mm unless you buy 94's that are machined down at the base to fit into the "92" hole. Info found here- http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=1_31


That's really good information, thank you! I know the case is step-cut, which matches the cylinders it came with. I tore it down months ago and did all of my measurements, so some of them could be a bit off. I'll have to doublecheck. For some reason, 95 is stuck in my head though...

Also good to know about the rear/axles. I measured them and you were right, definitely long axle. I did get a set of short axles for the car though, recently. Just need some time in the garage to get them all swapped over!

Thanks again for the info!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Mark Evans wrote:
If you're going to be doing some re work up front, now would be the time to look for a W decklid. They really do make the look of an oval...All that aside, looks like a good start.


Funny you should mention that, because I've been keeping my eyes open for one. Missed out on one a few weeks back locally, with the popes nose. Kept saying "the people on The Samba would be so happy!" Lol

Now that I have the suspension and wheels on its way, the wiring half installed and an engine, that may likely be one of my next moves.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Pic time!

So, I got the windows and Cal seals installed for now. The car came with Cal style seals, and I plan on running deluxe seals. Now, I know a lot of you may wonder why Im putting the windows in without having the headliner installed, and it simply comes down to wanting to have the car running and driving to be enjoyed before I take the plunge on the interior i WANT to do. The car came with cheapo TMI carpet and door panels, and that isnt the route I want to go on the interior. I plan on doing oatmeal square weave carpet, saddle/tan '57 correct door panels and smooth vinyl seat covers with sand colored tweed inlays, and a sand tween headliner, with an Oak center inlay section for the roof stained to match my Copper Hurst shift knob and Nardi-style wheel. Long story short - it's pricey and I likely wont have the coin around to do it for a while. So, rather than let it sit with an incomplete interior I'll just put it together with what I have and enjoy it a bit!

Onto the pics!

Picked up a "mystery storker"motor in trade for a beater Civic I had to commute back and forth to work. Turns out it wasnt a stroker at all - rather an 1835. It had been sitting out in the elements a bit, but still turned over and built compression (by hand) - so I pulled the trigger! Came with some goodies, mainly kaddies
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All torn down and in a box
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Also figured out its got a counterbalanced crank!
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I also got a killer deal on some 44 IDAs for the car, so I'll be throwing those on when it's time to put it all back together as a 1915.

Windows in and drivers door built out - all with parts that came with the car! It had brazillian outer scrapers, and they arent the best quality. I would like to swap them out for German pieces - eventually
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Installed Noico 80Mil black sound deadening on the pan and rear parcel tray area. I plan to do the front "firewall" and inside the doors an quarters, roof and possibly the inside of the hood and to the rear of the fuel tank - just need to order some more.
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Ordered up the Watson's Streetworks Deluxe VW wiring kit, and got it routed on the back hald of the car
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Whats left of the OG wiring
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Got some new repop headlights for Christmas, then made them my own with some gloss black paint on the housings
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It was at that point the chewed up spare tire well really started to bug me, and I decided to patch it with one that is in a bit better shape:
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So, I found a new to me panel in good shape and bought it, figured I'd swap it out and graft it in - easy peasy - but alas.... Turns out this thing had either been hit at some point pretty solid, or hit something pretty solid at one point... As you can see from the pic, the drivers side of the beam is quite a ways back. Measurements suggest it's just about 1/4" back on the drivers side, at the framehead
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So, it looks like i'll have to replace the framehead on the car, unfortunately. Im waiting on my new beam to get here so I can finalize some measurements and see how far out it really is before I pull the trigger on the replacement piece, which i'll either try to find on a used pan or go with WW.

I also got some goodies in the mail in the form of front discs and drop spindles, and 2" lowered/adjustable spring plates for the rear, short axles, tubes, and even some 21 3/4" torsions to convert the oval. No pics of that stuff at the moment...

I have some 8" widened smoothies on their way as well, but given the state of the framehead it'll likely be a bit before they're ready to go on the car...

That prettymuch catches the thread up, thanks for taking the time to check it out!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

I saw something once, a previous owner hack to be sure, but it seemed to work. On a Bug I looked at, and test drove, a set of caster wedges had been added to the upper and lower tubes on the drivers side to allow a replacement beam to sit strait in a slightly bend frame head. I didn't buy that Bug, but it drove fine.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
I saw something once, a previous owner hack to be sure, but it seemed to work. On a Bug I looked at, and test drove, a set of caster wedges had been added to the upper and lower tubes on the drivers side to allow a replacement beam to sit strait in a slightly bend frame head. I didn't buy that Bug, but it drove fine.


Not gonna lie, that did cross my mind. BUT I decided I didn't want to take that route. I'm planning on keeping this car forever, need it to be 100% right mechanically. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't know it was right.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

The spare tire area/ledge won't be the only welding that's needed. In the engine compartment, the bottom section of the firewall has been cut out. That piece has the large curved cutout into which the rubber seal is mounted, that forms the air seal with the front of the engine when the engine's front breast plate is installed.

You need that bottom section to keep the exhaust heat from being pulled into the engine fan at low driving speeds/idle, to prevent overheating the engine. I'm not aware of repro parts for this. If you source a used one, make sure you get one for a '61 and newer Beetle. Reason is, that those are shaped differently to clear the fresh-air style heater boxes during engine install/removal. The contours at the outer curves are cut higher than on a 36hp type. Get one from an approx. '63 thru '74 parts car, which I'm nearly certain all have the same contour. Super Beetle would have the same section. You already have the bonus of a later apron which makes engine R&I so much easier than an oval-correct "H" apron.

If you'd use the body-correct 36hp-style bottom section and want to run fresh air HBs with your 1835/1915 engine, the top of the HB would hit the firewall, preventing the engine from being pushed forward against the transmission. I encountered that nearly 30 years ago, when trying to install a 1300 into a '56. The only way around that is to keep the HBs off the engine until its in place, then install the HBs afterwards. Awkward but doable.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
The spare tire area/ledge won't be the only welding that's needed. In the engine compartment, the bottom section of the firewall has been cut out. That piece has the large curved cutout into which the rubber seal is mounted, that forms the air seal with the front of the engine when the engine's front breast plate is installed.

You need that bottom section to keep the exhaust heat from being pulled into the engine fan at low driving speeds/idle, to prevent overheating the engine. I'm not aware of repro parts for this. If you source a used one, make sure you get one for a '61 and newer Beetle. Reason is, that those are shaped differently to clear the fresh-air style heater boxes during engine install/removal. The contours at the outer curves are cut higher than on a 36hp type. Get one from an approx. '63 thru '74 parts car, which I'm nearly certain all have the same contour. Super Beetle would have the same section. You already have the bonus of a later apron which makes engine R&I so much easier than an oval-correct "H" apron.

If you'd use the body-correct 36hp-style bottom section and want to run fresh air HBs with your 1835/1915 engine, the top of the HB would hit the firewall, preventing the engine from being pushed forward against the transmission. I encountered that nearly 30 years ago, when trying to install a 1300 into a '56. The only way around that is to keep the HBs off the engine until its in place, then install the HBs afterwards. Awkward but doable.
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I didn't even notice that until now, but now that you pointed it out its blatantly obvious! Wow, thank you!

Time to hit the classifieds!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1957 from CO - O'Phelia :D Reply with quote

Rome wrote:

You need that bottom section to keep the exhaust heat from being pulled into the engine fan . . . Get one from an approx. '63 thru '74 parts car . . .
The only way around that is to keep the HBs off the engine until its in place, then install the HBs afterwards. Awkward but doable.

I had my 1776 engine in and out of my '56 several times . . . removing and re-installing the heater boxes each time.
If I needed to replace that lower firewall section, I would not hesitate to use a panel from a later, "Fresh-air" donor car!
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