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Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick
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jovanybg
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

Hello guys!
I am pretty new in here and I just started working on my new car - 1971 Karmann Ghia Auto Stick - trying to getting it road ready. The problem I have is that it doesn't idle correctly. First step I took was replacing the Spark plugs, followed by the wires, distributor Cap and rotor. I am trying to get my timing, but in order to do that I have to get the car to idle. As of now it dies if I am not stepping on the gas. It burns pretty reach too.
My objective for now is to replace the points. I've ordered a replacement 01 011, but when I opened the distributor the points are totaly different. Distributor is a stock Bosch 113 905 205 AH, but I am wondering if somebody before me did something wrong with it - attached pictures.
Any help will help!
After I do the timing I will have to play with a KEFER 34 PICT 3 carby installed in the car.
But first think first - distributor points... Thanks in advance!!!
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

You have a electronic points replacement.
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jovanybg
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
You have a electronic points replacement.

Thanks a lot for the reply!!!!
Is electronic points good or bad?!
Can that be my trouble with the idle?! Do I need to time any different than 5 degrees with those?
Again...any more information will be very helpful!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

That is a highly debated topic covered extensively if yu do a search you can choose from hundreds of opinions. Mad

There aree other suspects for example: there might be an idle cutoff valve attached to your carburetor. If the lead wire from the coil to it is wek or non existent your carburetor will not idle.

The cylinder on the left side of the carburetor is the cut off valve.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

What 34-3 carb is this? Is it an original German, Solex 34-3?

Will it idle on full choke at all or does it just die when not giving it gas? If it just dies, then check the carb shut off solenoid as mentioned above. If it idles at a higher RPM when just started but dies when the choke opens, you have something clogging the idle circuit in the carb or the carb is badly adjusted.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

have you checked out: vwar.org... THE site for all auto stick questions.

our auto sticks are a slightly different beast
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

It looks like this was already answered!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650722&highlight=
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

Yes, I've got my bigger answer - my problem was the Carburetor. I've swooped it with the Solex and .... whoalhaaa.... I can adjust my idle!!! Solex rocks when is rebuilt by VolkzBitz.
Now I am trying to sort out the electronic points in the distributor.
The contact plate is rubbing the electronic points and that smears the contacts.
That I think is causing me troubles at some point of my daily drive - the car runs perfect lets say in 3-rd gear with 10 miles/hr., no hesitation...solid drive. It runs better at higher speeds, but this was the speed I've had troubles with. When I clear the contact plate from the black smear (I assume it is plastic from the plate itself rubbing on the top side of the points) the car runs as a champ! After a 20-30 minutes drive I am approaching stop sign and down shift to first gear, but the car hesitates and if I do not put any more gas, it would stall. Another cleaning of the contact plate and the car runs great!
Any expertise on the distance between the top of the points and the contact plate and methods of regulating that space/ adjusting it?!
Thanks!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
What 34-3 carb is this? Is it an original German, Solex 34-3?

Will it idle on full choke at all or does it just die when not giving it gas? If it just dies, then check the carb shut off solenoid as mentioned above. If it idles at a higher RPM when just started but dies when the choke opens, you have something clogging the idle circuit in the carb or the carb is badly adjusted.

I've changed the Carbi, as it was not correct for Autostick. Once I've put the original Solex on, almost all of my troubles disappeared!
Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

That distributor is pretty grimy, I'd start by giving it some love and try and clean it the best you can, All that dust and grease messes around with electric field..
A couple of things after you clean up as best you can:
Test the vacuum can by sucking on the hose and see if the advance lever inside moves, If so, drop a tiny drop of oil on the pivot rod ( The stud with the clip around it just below the red and black wires)
Drop another tiny bit of oil on the felt pad on the shaft underneath the rotor.
How is that rotor and cap BTW? dirty and sooty? Maybe time for a newbie..
You say you have a 34 pict carb, This should have both the advance and retard inlets on it..The retard hose on the back of your vacuum can should go to the inlet at the front of the carb, the other, advance should go to the left side of the carb..
Make sure all the connections are good, those cloth fuel lines are known to get brittle and crack, causing a leak,in fuel and vacuum..( fuel is worse..you definetely dont want that!)
-Good luck
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

fes wrote:
That distributor is pretty grimy, I'd start by giving it some love and try and clean it the best you can, All that dust and grease messes around with electric field..
A couple of things after you clean up as best you can:
Test the vacuum can by sucking on the hose and see if the advance lever inside moves, If so, drop a tiny drop of oil on the pivot rod ( The stud with the clip around it just below the red and black wires)
Drop another tiny bit of oil on the felt pad on the shaft underneath the rotor.
How is that rotor and cap BTW? dirty and sooty? Maybe time for a newbie..
You say you have a 34 pict carb, This should have both the advance and retard inlets on it..The retard hose on the back of your vacuum can should go to the inlet at the front of the carb, the other, advance should go to the left side of the carb..
Make sure all the connections are good, those cloth fuel lines are known to get brittle and crack, causing a leak,in fuel and vacuum..( fuel is worse..you definetely dont want that!)
-Good luck


I'll add to this by saying if that DVDA distributor has never been taken completely apart to be cleaned, regreased and re-oiled, it needs it. The pivot/advance plate had grease put between the plates when new. After 40 years, the grease is hard and sticky. It will either freeze the pivot plate up or add a lot of additional pressure to move it. This can ruin the vacuum canister diaphragms that are trying to pull and push it from the strain.

I just rebuilt a 205AN for a customer. It had never been apart. Boy did it need it. It worked beautifully after it was cleaned, inspected and re-lubed.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

fes wrote:
That distributor is pretty grimy, I'd start by giving it some love and try and clean it the best you can, All that dust and grease messes around with electric field..
A couple of things after you clean up as best you can:
Test the vacuum can by sucking on the hose and see if the advance lever inside moves, If so, drop a tiny drop of oil on the pivot rod ( The stud with the clip around it just below the red and black wires)
Drop another tiny bit of oil on the felt pad on the shaft underneath the rotor.
How is that rotor and cap BTW? dirty and sooty? Maybe time for a newbie..
You say you have a 34 pict carb, This should have both the advance and retard inlets on it..The retard hose on the back of your vacuum can should go to the inlet at the front of the carb, the other, advance should go to the left side of the carb..
Make sure all the connections are good, those cloth fuel lines are known to get brittle and crack, causing a leak,in fuel and vacuum..( fuel is worse..you definetely dont want that!)
-Good luck

Thanks for the advises! Greatly appreciated!!!
I've never messed with distributors yet, but I guess it is time to learn that too! Smile
I've already lubricated the felt under the rotor.
Rotor and Cap are brand new.
Inside lever on the Vacuum moves surprisingly smooth...
Both vacuum hoses - retard and advance are brand new...
All fuel hoses also brand new...
I will attempt disassembling of the distributor when I feel brave enough about doing it myself! Smile For now I think will try to clean it as good as I can and lubricate it where needed!
I am trying to find the spring that goes under the drive dog and above the drive gear, but no luck as of yet. I think that might be the reason of why the Contact plate rubs and smears the electronic points!!??
Thanks again!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
fes wrote:
That distributor is pretty grimy, I'd start by giving it some love and try and clean it the best you can, All that dust and grease messes around with electric field..
A couple of things after you clean up as best you can:
Test the vacuum can by sucking on the hose and see if the advance lever inside moves, If so, drop a tiny drop of oil on the pivot rod ( The stud with the clip around it just below the red and black wires)
Drop another tiny bit of oil on the felt pad on the shaft underneath the rotor.
How is that rotor and cap BTW? dirty and sooty? Maybe time for a newbie..
You say you have a 34 pict carb, This should have both the advance and retard inlets on it..The retard hose on the back of your vacuum can should go to the inlet at the front of the carb, the other, advance should go to the left side of the carb..
Make sure all the connections are good, those cloth fuel lines are known to get brittle and crack, causing a leak,in fuel and vacuum..( fuel is worse..you definetely dont want that!)
-Good luck


I'll add to this by saying if that DVDA distributor has never been taken completely apart to be cleaned, regreased and re-oiled, it needs it. The pivot/advance plate had grease put between the plates when new. After 40 years, the grease is hard and sticky. It will either freeze the pivot plate up or add a lot of additional pressure to move it. This can ruin the vacuum canister diaphragms that are trying to pull and push it from the strain.

I just rebuilt a 205AN for a customer. It had never been apart. Boy did it need it. It worked beautifully after it was cleaned, inspected and re-lubed.

Thanks!!!
I'm starting to gather my bravery and I guess will HAVE to disassemble and clean the distributor!!! Thanks a lot!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

Today was the day to show some love to my dizzi. I took it apart as much as I thought it needs,cleaned it and oiled. I put some grease between the braker plates and boy,it runs smoothly!!!
Most importantly I was missing the spring between the drive dog and the drive gear,so I installed a new one in there.
Some pictures of the cleaning attached.
The engine has never run so smooth!!!
Thank you guys foe the great advises!!!
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

Good job! Just pulling the breaker plate off, separating it and removing the old, hard grease while adding new grease can make a world of difference!

You've added years to the life of your distributor vacuum can as well.

Final suggestion. Make sure your advance vacuum hose is the metal one w/the loop at the top. Then, your vacuum hose that goes to the retard also has a loop in it as well.

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Here's a picture of an original engine. You see the green vacuum retard hose? It should have even a bigger loop above the carb above it as well. Why? It keeps the gas vapors from flowing down into the vacuum can and damaging the diaphragms.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Good job! Just pulling the breaker plate off, separating it and removing the old, hard grease while adding new grease can make a world of difference!

You've added years to the life of your distributor vacuum can as well.

Final suggestion. Make sure your advance vacuum hose is the metal one w/the loop at the top. Then, your vacuum hose that goes to the retard also has a loop in it as well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's a picture of an original engine. You see the green vacuum retard hose? It should have even a bigger loop above the carb above it as well. Why? It keeps the gas vapors from flowing down into the vacuum can and damaging the diaphragms.

Here is how my looks after all the weekends working on. Still need to put the stock muffler on,as so new oil filled shocks.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

That looks very good!

You're going to get attacked for the fuel filter being in the engine compartment, btw. Laughing

While some have had them there for decades, others have had them fail, crack and catch their engines on fire.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
That looks very good!

You're going to get attacked for the fuel filter being in the engine compartment, btw. Laughing

While some have had them there for decades, others have had them fail, crack and catch their engines on fire.


I think I'll leave the filter in there for now. I am going through 2 filters per month! Sad Specially after filling gas in the tank the filter used to get dirty in a matter of days. Right now I can get about a month before the filter turnes darkish... A cleanout of the tank will be my project in the near future, but I am putting it on backburner for now...

Can you help me with the hose you have on the picture of your engine - I've marked it in red and I do not know where it goes once it goes through the bottom of the engine compartment. I have a new, stock muffler that I have to put on the car, but it has 2x hose inlets/outlets. Should I be plugging one of those and connect that hose to the other?! Thanks for your help!
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

There should be a separate connection/tube next to your muffler that connects to the hose. If you have a modified exhaust then it might not be there or might just be missing. I think it's called a pre-heat tube or something like that. Heats the air going the carb when starting up, you should also have some kind of thermostatic device on the air cleaner or under the engine that closes as the engine warms up.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Points Confusion on 1971 Ghia Auto Stick Reply with quote

http://www.airheadparts.com/ProdImages/p113-129-511-E.jpg

It's called a stove pipe. The bend in it goes under the slid tins and draws the warm air from under the cylinders and feeds it up through the hose to the oil bath.

Plenty of places sell them. Very Happy
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**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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