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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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So I've been trying to sort out a way to mount the subaru a/c, rad and fan under the bus. The whole works together is about 5" thick. My bus came with a BA6 that had to go, and the belly pan that covered it
Ooops
It has an offset that lowers it about an inch or so under the frame rails giving me about 5" of space.... nice
I'm just using the original mounting tabs with some angle brackets to hold it in place...
This setup will draw air from the bottom up.....
I found these at my local hardware store
Very split bus vent-ish. 2 will cover the area nicely
Yes they're plastic but if it works I can hunt down the metal equivalent _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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I've also been dealing with the throttle body reverser I got and modified.......
First issue was that I was gonna have to lengthen the wires for the plugs...
Second issue was that the wiring for the spark plugs now has to be moved. The new placement of the IAC valve is in the way
Thirdly - there is this valve- port breather thingy that the IAC valve covers up perfectly....
Each one on it's own is no biggie, but it's enough to make me scrap the TBR idea. I'm gonna go the way of Skills and box out the firewall
I've ordered one of those 'cobra' elbows that Nepenthe88 mentioned in his post. When it arrives I'll do some measurements to see what I'm dealing with...
_________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
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captincanuck Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 730 Location: The Great White North
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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fogoo wrote: |
Very split bus vent-ish. 2 will cover the area nicely
Yes they're plastic but if it works I can hunt down the metal equivalent |
Just a thought; but I don't think you will get sufficient air flow through that vent cover. Some air would enter the first section but the rest will all be blocked by the one directly in front. Maybe mounting it on a slight angle instead of flush to the BA6 cover would increase the flow. _________________ 1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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Stuartzickefoose Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008 Posts: 10350 Location: SoCal for now...
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Find a split bus and cut out the rear engine vents... _________________ Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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secretsubmariner Champagne Wrangler
Joined: January 08, 2011 Posts: 3104 Location: Tulsa, OK
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
Find a split bus and cut out the rear engine vents... |
Ha ha my buddy has 4 splits, I think if he came out one morning and found big holes where his vents were he may suspect me _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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secretsubmariner wrote: |
HUGE fan of your panel bus, dude. Bookmark'd |
Thanks! _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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captincanuck wrote: |
fogoo wrote: |
Very split bus vent-ish. 2 will cover the area nicely
Yes they're plastic but if it works I can hunt down the metal equivalent |
Just a thought; but I don't think you will get sufficient air flow through that vent cover. Some air would enter the first section but the rest will all be blocked by the one directly in front. Maybe mounting it on a slight angle instead of flush to the BA6 cover would increase the flow. |
Yah, you might be right, it's one of the things I'll try and scrap/update as I need to. May just have to offset the vents instead of the whole bellypan. My initial thoughts/design were kind of based on canadian winters.....if there is a gap....air will find it _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Success!!
I ordered the elbow from these guys...
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PR..._Code=RUBB
It's a 3" to 3", but you can order the 2.75" inserts for $10 more. I had to cut about half an inch off the mounted end and the insert had a 1/4" lip that had to go, but after that it slipped in. I'll follow Skills model and flatten the tank seam and box the firewall. But for $35 it's a pretty good solution...
Have had some other successes and some failures but I'll get into that when I snap some photos...... _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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I had thought about using them way back when I started these conversions. the reason why I didn't move forward with them is the lack of a proper way for the breather hook ups. so yea, my machined t-bodys are expensive, but get the crankcase ventilation correct.
as you will find, there is a lot of "split the difference" scenarios with these conversions. that, and I am a form and function kind of guy. I suppose you could get the ventilation to work properly, but I just felt like not trying to re invent the wheel _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I had thought about using them way back when I started these conversions. the reason why I didn't move forward with them is the lack of a proper way for the breather hook ups. so yea, my machined t-bodys are expensive, but get the crankcase ventilation correct.
as you will find, there is a lot of "split the difference" scenarios with these conversions. that, and I am a form and function kind of guy. I suppose you could get the ventilation to work properly, but I just felt like not trying to re invent the wheel |
Skills, your intakes are a work of art, and I would say well worth the cost. If you were closer I prolly would've just dropped mine off for you to mod. The pre-designed stuff like the engine support bar I bought makes the swap way easier....there is a ton of other little things one has to figure out.....
As it is now I've spent hours lying under the bus trying to come up with the best scenario for cooling, heating and electrical routing...
For the ventialtion I'm gonna tap some barb fittings into the intake, hopefully should work ok
_________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20271 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Count me in as a watcher for this build. Keep it up! _________________ nothing |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Ok it's been a while, I've made some pretty decent progress, hopefully I can remember some of the finer details as I type......
First off.... Engine is in and running!!!!
Everything fit like factory, I used a hoist from above coupled with a small jack underneath to help center it. Took about as long as any other a/c engine I've installed. The support bar from Busaru fits perfectly. Super easy install....
Not the greatest pic but you get the idea....
Electrics went in pretty painlessly.....
I have a VSS installed, will get a pic next time I'm under the bus
Started up right away. I have one of those wifi obd2 readers. It's giving me codes for the evap system.
Idling has had some problems. I've replaced the IAC valve and cleaned the MAF sensor. Seems better. No related codes though...
I ended up scrapping the Subi rad for a dodge ram rad. The whole belly pan thing would have probably worked but it was a real pain and bloody awkward getting that thing in and out. The new one fits nicely in between the rails...
I've since added some extra support bars
I'm usiing the stock subi header.. the later single port ones do a nice 90* bend that allows you to tie in a custom muffler easily. It is the lowest hanging fruit off the engine, but there is room for me to mebbe raise it by an inch or 2. I'm not going to shorten the oil pan, I see no need (and the bus is already lowered)
This is the exhaust I fab'd up. Once I finalize the header I'll get rid of some of the clamps and get some more permanent welds going... got the O2 bungs in there...
And here it is installed....
Added some bits to the dash.....
Cheap tach tied into the ECU, quite accurate. It had some red and white stripes and extra markings. Some creative sharpie action made it look a little more like it belongs . Had some extra glass from an early cluster, it added to the look.
The temp gauge is from my flaps. Came with it's own sender. It reads a needle width higher than it should compared with the obd2 reader. I figure thats not the worst thing. As I've read here, the fan seems to come on at 206* and the temps seem happy.
The bus is a joy to drive and has a nice smooth acceleration.
I'm finding that I am never, ever, ever ,ever using 1st gear, It's just not needed for my purposes. I'm wondering if it's possible to re-arrange the gearing so that 2nd is 1st. 3rd is 2nd, 4th is 3rd and add a taller 4th gear?? _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Oh and in the first pic you can see the air filter kind of hanging on to the intake. That's not it's final home. The MAF cable was too short to fit the air filter opposite the battery, so I shortened the intake temporarily. I'll get a pic of the final when it's done... _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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stock gearing sucks in 002 and 091 form, as you found out. I started with an 091 right off the bat and hated it _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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captincanuck Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 730 Location: The Great White North
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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Up and running already? Way to go. Couple questions/comments for ya:
In your engine shot I don't see an expansion tank. Is it hiding somewhere else? You should (from what I have read) have one to prevent possible head gasket failure.
So if you ditched the Subaru rad for the Dodge, did you keep the Subaru AC rad? I don't see a belt on the AC so I guess it will be a work in progress?
Did you install the small car code bypass board?
What kind of pipe did you run to the rad from the engine?
Will you take the bus to the Jitter bug? Where do think we should park? Air cooled bus section of water cooled vanagon section? Maybe we will have to start a new section _________________ 1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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fogoo Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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captincanuck wrote: |
Up and running already? Way to go. Couple questions/comments for ya:
In your engine shot I don't see an expansion tank. Is it hiding somewhere else? You should (from what I have read) have one to prevent possible head gasket failure.
So if you ditched the Subaru rad for the Dodge, did you keep the Subaru AC rad? I don't see a belt on the AC so I guess it will be a work in progress?
Did you install the small car code bypass board?
What kind of pipe did you run to the rad from the engine?
Will you take the bus to the Jitter bug? Where do think we should park? Air cooled bus section of water cooled vanagon section? Maybe we will have to start a new section |
Yes, there is an expansion tank. Right now it's propped up behind the drivers side brake lights. Permanent home will be on the back firewall once the air box gets moved
Still going to go with the subi a/c bits. Not sure if I will layer it with the new rad or run it somewhere else. The goal would be to have it as a separate install so that each system can be worked on independently
I was going to go with the small car interface but just never got around to ordering it. I was waiting to see if I was going to get one of their single port headers but according to them it will not work with the engine support bar I have (been chatting with Busaru Mick about it) With the so few engine codes I have, will probably not bother. I'm not running a CEL yet and may not. It only takes a min to run the diagnostic on my phone to see if all is happy. I did have to add a wire to the harness to tell the ecu it was running a manual trans, that eliminated all the auto trans codes.
The pipe is 1 1/4 emt pipe with a few elbows here and there. I used the Busaru high top bus setup as my template and went from there. Because I had the BA6 (and I think you do too) there is a huge fresh air return duct where one would normally drill through the rear crossmember to run the pipe (I think that's how Skills does it, but I could be wrong on that) I used the "Y" pipe to run over the torsion beam. Had to cut some out, but it was pretty toasty anyways. For the elbows I literally bought a shit load of various coolant pipes from the flaps and tried stuff until it worked. I have a big return pile
Jitterbug is definitely on the calendar.... I have a T4 to sell!! _________________ 64 Single Cab
71 Bug.....sold
73 Bus......sold
75 Panel Bus - converting to Subi power http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651073&highlight=
78 Kombi Camper |
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captincanuck Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 730 Location: The Great White North
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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fogoo wrote: |
captincanuck wrote: |
Up and running already? Way to go. Couple questions/comments for ya:
In your engine shot I don't see an expansion tank. Is it hiding somewhere else? You should (from what I have read) have one to prevent possible head gasket failure.
So if you ditched the Subaru rad for the Dodge, did you keep the Subaru AC rad? I don't see a belt on the AC so I guess it will be a work in progress?
Did you install the small car code bypass board?
What kind of pipe did you run to the rad from the engine?
Will you take the bus to the Jitter bug? Where do think we should park? Air cooled bus section of water cooled vanagon section? Maybe we will have to start a new section |
Yes, there is an expansion tank. Right now it's propped up behind the drivers side brake lights. Permanent home will be on the back firewall once the air box gets moved
Still going to go with the subi a/c bits. Not sure if I will layer it with the new rad or run it somewhere else. The goal would be to have it as a separate install so that each system can be worked on independently
I was going to go with the small car interface but just never got around to ordering it. I was waiting to see if I was going to get one of their single port headers but according to them it will not work with the engine support bar I have (been chatting with Busaru Mick about it) With the so few engine codes I have, will probably not bother. I'm not running a CEL yet and may not. It only takes a min to run the diagnostic on my phone to see if all is happy. I did have to add a wire to the harness to tell the ecu it was running a manual trans, that eliminated all the auto trans codes.
The pipe is 1 1/4 emt pipe with a few elbows here and there. I used the Busaru high top bus setup as my template and went from there. Because I had the BA6 (and I think you do too) there is a huge fresh air return duct where one would normally drill through the rear crossmember to run the pipe (I think that's how Skills does it, but I could be wrong on that) I used the "Y" pipe to run over the torsion beam. Had to cut some out, but it was pretty toasty anyways. For the elbows I literally bought a shit load of various coolant pipes from the flaps and tried stuff until it worked. I have a big return pile
Jitterbug is definitely on the calendar.... I have a T4 to sell!! |
Great thanks. So for the EMT sections did you need to bend or bead it in any way? It so how did you do it. I went to a couple muffler places and nobody wants to have anything to do with me
Looking at renting a bender next week some time. _________________ 1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16863 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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find a muffler shop. you'll never get the bends right
I stocked up last time I had them made
my pipes are not compatible with the RMW hanger though, as my pipes stay very high on the inner frame rail _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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captincanuck Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014 Posts: 730 Location: The Great White North
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Subi Swap - 75 Panel |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
find a muffler shop. you'll never get the bends right |
I may have to do that. Just thought it would be nice to have a machine right there so I could bend and fit.
I also found a slick solution for beading the pipe that I will share when I get to that point. _________________ 1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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