Rear disc brakes won't fit. Shims?

[Skulptorchaz]

Well, I tried to put my new rear discs on last night but the disc, when tightened on the stub, was too close to the caliper bracket for the caliper to fit in between and be bolted on. It misses by maybe 1/32 to 1/64th of fitting. Altho that is a small amount, I would think I would want it shimmed out even further for the disc to center a little closer in the center of the caliper opening.
I called AT, where I got them, and asked about it and the guy said that he had "never" heard of that before and that the bracket (actually BOTH) could have been damaged in shipping. B.S.!!!!!! I've been a fabricator since 1981 and unless a truck ran over BOTH of them exactly the same, that ain't happening. But he stuck to his guns and said damage can happen in shipping. (That is why I am interested in finding another parts place. Another story.) I did agree with him that it could be a problem in stamping.
Anyway, I and another buddy (fabricator and racer) put the stubs together as per instructions, book and no extra parts left over so I am pretty sure we have it correct.
So, after my long winded intro, my question is - should I just make shims and center the rotor or just do as the salesman said and just tweak it a little so the rotor just fits inside the caliper opening? I think it would ultimately be better "centered".
Your thoughts??
Thanks!
Chaz

[jspbtown]

Generally speaking when I read something similar to this:

"Anyway, I and another buddy (fabricator and racer) put the stubs together as per instructions, book and no extra parts left over so I am pretty sure we have it correct. "

My first suggestion would be to go back and double check that.

That being said....wouldn't be easier to shave the bracket?

[Skulptorchaz]

Not sure why that statement would make you think that. I just put that in there so you didn't think we were some 18 year old's with a first time project. Otherwise, people tend to waste their time writing responses for nothing. Just trying to save others some time and effort. But, I am by no means saying I am "perfect" and definitely don't know all the idiosyncrasies, tips and tricks of a VW that many of you do.
Shaving the bracket could be a "fix" but, I would rather not take any material from it as I prefer it to be as strong as engineered. And if i would want to try to center the rotor in the caliper, I'd have to take 3/32nds off of it.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[jspbtown]

Don't get me wrong....I was just trying to point out that if I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say "I had a buddy" and "I think its right" and it ended up being something simple I would be a rich man.

How thick is the bracket?

[hillmotorsports]

So you bought the kit in question from AT, but who designed/manufactured it? They're the people I would want to talk to. Anyone else is guessing with zero information to back their statements.
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[Skulptorchaz]

I would expect that AT "should" know what they have and are selling as this is a rather common upgrade from EMPI. At least the auto parts places I usually deal with are pretty knowledgeable about their more common parts.

BTW, the bracket is 0.238 thick, JSBP. No hard feelings for sure. I am just a guy who appreciates the help he gets and likes to help in return or at least make things easy on people if I can.

Anyway, just for posterity, here is what we did:
I got a couple washers from the local parts store that had an I.D. the was too small but close. The O.D. was about 3/16" too big. It measured 0.136 thick. I opened up the inside and ground down the outside. Here is a pic of the shim I made next to the large outer shim (supplied).

Here is a shot of the distance of the rotor to the mount. It would not fit in.

Here is the shim installed. It sits almost perfectly flush with the outside of the seal.

Here is the fit up with the spacer. Almost perfect center.

I'm hoping this works. If so, maybe this will help someone else down the road. If not, well, I guess it would be best deleted. I'll keep ya informed. BTW, the castle nut also fits.

Thanks Gents!!!
Chaz

[Q-Dog]

[Dale M.]

[clonebug]

I had some issues with my Rear Disc Brake system too.
The caliper bracket was about .038" thicker than the original Swing Axle backing plate.
While I ran it with some shims against the spacer for the summer it was not ideal and I had to use washers between the caliper bracket and caliper to get mine centered.
I ended up having a friend of mine machine a spare set of endcaps down .038 and I installed them this winter.
That allowed me to pull the extra shims out and I also didn't need to use washers between the caliper and bracket.

Here is my caliper installed after I did the fix. It is close to perfect.

I also built new custom brake lines to get rid of the feeble setup that came with the system.
It made my pedal feel a LOT better.

This was their idea of a brake line install......

I have read of some people machining the caliper mounting bracket down a bit to get it centered.
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[jspbtown]

Didn't someone else recently have this problem? And did they machine the calipers? I don't know why this looks so familiar.

And yeah...you should not machine those mounts.

[joescoolcustoms]

Other than stock Ghia front disc set ups, I have only installed one disc set up that did not need altered. it was AC front wide five on my '73 Thing.

Every other set I had to shim, shave, clearance, bend to make them line up square and centered on a rotor.

Sucks, but I now figure it in on the build.
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Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[Skulptorchaz]

Thanks Gents!!!!
I have also heard that about EMPI and I try to steer clear of them because of the stories but..... they do make a LOT of products and sometimes the only people making it (at least from what I have seen.)
This wasn't a major issue cause if it works, it would have been an easy fix. It does help having a fab shop but unfortunately, most guys don't. I REALLY love this site for helping people with their issues. There is typically more than just one way to fix an issue and if a person does not have access to one way, they may have access to another.
I think the best fix for my buggy would be having a new spacer made that rides on the inside of the outer seal. It would just be basically a one piece spacer then.
I really appreciate all the input. I'll let ya know how it turns out.
Thanks,
Chaz

[mark tucker]

my rear brackets were all wonkey, so I milled them square. dont just bend them as the caliper may fit but wont be square. it may be the claiper, not the bracket or it may be both or just bracket or even the rotors. when you get the caliper on and press the brakes if the claiper moves/tilts at all it's not straight and wont work and will have a mushey low peddell and uneven wearing pads. cast brackets would be better....if they were done right. did you pull appart the bearings?? are all the parts in there?correctly?are you sure??and not wore out?like a dead spacer or missing washer witch both can cause the rotor to be too far inward. Ive done oh somany irs rears on somany diferent than vw cars, lotsa vetts, I have to look at the book everytime to be sure Im working on what my braine thinks Im working on

[clonebug]

That spacer where the seal rides on is a hardened steel do it won't crush from the 250 plus lbs. torque.
Be careful if you replace it with a custom built one that you don't get wear from the softer metal and your hubs work loose and strip the splines.

If I were you I would leave the original parts in there and modify the caliper mounting bracket by machining a bit off the mounting points.
It would be a lot easier than building a new spacer and getting it hardened.

Make sure your IRS axle stub is mounted correctly as per the Hayes manual and that all the parts are in the correct place before you do any modifying.
It will change the position of the rotor.

I know from experience on my Swing Axle that it is very important to assemble in the right order or you will get an oil leak since the gear box oil lubes the axle bearing whereas the IRS just has wheel bearing grease.
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[slalombuggy]

Your brake kit looks exactly like all the Empi rear disk kits I've installed right down to that crappy little brake hose I always throw out and replace with a 6" braided hose and extra mount for the hard line.. I only had problems with one and that was that the caliper brackets weren't bent square to the rotor. I bent them to correct the problem but after that ordered the cast brackets and never had a problem.

brad

[wythac]

Good luck with your modifications. I tried to make two of these kits work. First had fitment problems with the brackets. Second damaged my axles because of poor casting/machining of the hubs. I know that others have had better luck but I wasn't feeling much like a gambler, and bought a different kit on the third pass.

You may also find that if you don't shim your bearing caps properly the side to side drift of the axles will spread the disc pads in the calipers, resulting in your having to pump your brakes to get the pads in contact with the rotors.

[Iguana]

here is a link to a post I did on fitting them back a while.

http://www.meyersmanx.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=114&start=20

We only ever use the cast brackets the steel ones are crap,

[mark tucker]

I wonder why they even make the steel ones..... whoo has good pricing on the cast iron ones?

[Skulptorchaz]

I'm interested in cast mounts as well.
Hey Iguana, I looked at your Manx post. Good stuff, thanx! But I have a question, it looked like the rotor hugged the inside of the caliper. Is that the way to have it? Or did you get it more "centered"? Thanks for the pix and narrative.

Good info Wythac. I followed the book and the enclosed instructions so if they were made correctly, I should be OK.

I'm also using stainless braided lines, Brad. I understand they are better than rubber and look cooler.

Clone, I used a hardened washer as well. Oddly enough, my parts guy, who got me the washer, suggested not using it because it would be hard to manicure to fit.

Thank you again guys!!!
Chaz

[heywebonya]

Just ordered the cast mounts 22-2905-F from Dan's Performance - took several tries to find the unit with E-brake AND the Cast Mounts. Seems like the best prices and free shipping. Hopefully this goes well
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