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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: First time out |
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Took the new Rail out for the first time this weekend and had a couple issues.
First issue I noticed:
I am getting backfiring whenever I let off the gas (regardless of the gear I am in). I am thinking I should check the timing and the synch on the dual 40 IDFs. Any other recommendations?
Second issue:
I have two dummy lights and an oil pressure gauge. I don't know what either dummy light represents (and neither did the previous owner). One of the lights would come on during trips (but not every trip). Sometimes it would stay on, sometimes it wouldn't. Also, the oil pressure gauge would max out when I turned the power on but then would drop down to under 120 (the lowest reading on the gauge) once the engine was started. It wouldn't move from there while driving.
Third issue:
I started hearing a grinding noise coming from the front end. It progressively got worse as the day went on until it was a constant grinding noise regardless of speed or bumps. My fronts are rim on spindle, which I have no experience with. I did notice that the passenger side had some wiggle room before I took it out so I knocked off the cover and tightened it up. Is it possible that I over tightened it or is it more likely that the bearing is just bad?
Thanks for any help that you can provide.
The motor is an 1835 if that makes any kind of difference |
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ORANGECRUSHer Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006 Posts: 2616 Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:55 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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It would be worth while to trace those 'dumby' lights and see what they're supposed to do. Depending on the guages, I suggest tearing them out and replacing them with new. That way you know they work correctly to begin with and you can make sure they are sized for the measurements needed on your rig which it sounds like maybe one is too big. Guages aren't always cheap but thankfully we don't need many. Some of the handy ones are voltmeter, oil pressure, and an alternator/generator warning light. Temperature guages are nice but not necessary. Fuel guage if you can install a sender in your tank.
I always tell people it's wise to replace ALL the wheel bearings with heavily packed quality replacements. They're just too cheap not to. Especially when you don't know how well the PO maintained them. Usually you get them with about 100 feet of life left in them. I take it your grinding was coming from the front wheel? I think the parts supplier references which bearings are for spindle type setups. Make sure to get new seals along with those bearings too otherwise your wasting money. _________________ Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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peterd3060 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010 Posts: 114 Location: willcox az
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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dummy lights are oil pressure and alternator/generator which ever you have, unplug alternator wire while it running to see which one comes on constantly,possibility you have a bad sender on oil pressure ,ive had the vdo sender for dummy light and gauge go bad (usually buries gauge when power is turned on)if they are wired backwards on sender the gauge will act screwy and or burn out the dummy light side of the sender
the backfire is more than likely a timing issue or miss fire issue , burnt wire, bad cap, wrong timing order |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Thanks guys, I will definitely be tracing the wiring so I know what is what, I may actually do some moving and replacing since I don't like the current location of the switch/gauge box.
Yes, the grinding was coming from the passenger front wheel. I will have to do some more research regarding how to replace the wheel bearing, unless anyone wants to hook me up with a good DIY link . |
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Sandjunky Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:21 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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firehorse02 wrote: |
Took the new Rail out for the first time this weekend and had a couple issues.
First issue I noticed:
I am getting backfiring whenever I let off the gas (regardless of the gear I am in). I am thinking I should check the timing and the synch on the dual 40 IDFs. Any other recommendations?
Second issue:
I have two dummy lights and an oil pressure gauge. I don't know what either dummy light represents (and neither did the previous owner). One of the lights would come on during trips (but not every trip). Sometimes it would stay on, sometimes it wouldn't. Also, the oil pressure gauge would max out when I turned the power on but then would drop down to under 120 (the lowest reading on the gauge) once the engine was started. It wouldn't move from there while driving.
Third issue:
I started hearing a grinding noise coming from the front end. It progressively got worse as the day went on until it was a constant grinding noise regardless of speed or bumps. My fronts are rim on spindle, which I have no experience with. I did notice that the passenger side had some wiggle room before I took it out so I knocked off the cover and tightened it up. Is it possible that I over tightened it or is it more likely that the bearing is just bad?
Thanks for any help that you can provide.
The motor is an 1835 if that makes any kind of difference |
The intermittent light is probably an oil pressure or temp indicator and the other is likely a generator indicator that would light up if you threw a belt to let you know your cooling fan is inoperative. Your pressure gauge isn't the right gauge for a beetle. You need a 0-80 PSI Gauge. I don't think you'll ever hit 120 PSI, especially on an engine that hasn't been maintained.
You can verify what each dummy light is indicating with an ohmeter:
1. check your indicator light to ground (from the sending unit side) with engine off (should read high resistance)
2. Ground the wire at the sending unit on the engine.
3. Recheck indicator light to ground. When you read ground (low resistance) then you have found the indicator for that sending unit.
Pressure sender is large and round, while temp sender is small.
Jack the rail up and spin the wheels by hand. You'll know which side needs replacing, if not both sides. Sounds like your rail wasn't maintained so it wouldn't hurt to inspect your tie rod ends while you are at it. |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Thanks Sandjunky, I agree, it doesn't seem like it was well maintained. Kinda strange considering I bought it from someone that works for Jammar |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12815 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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If you have a pressure guage, and a functioning dummy/idiot light, then you may have a dual sender unit for the guage & light. If you do have a dual sender unit, the wires might be connected backwards causing odd readings. Start with determining which light is for the charging system as others have suggested & then ground the wire to the sender to see if the other light comes on or if the guage pegs. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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I appreciate all the replies and suggestions from everyone. I haven't had a chance to do anything yet due to weather and schedule. Hopefully I will be able to start digging in to her soon. |
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Mal evolent Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009 Posts: 2912 Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Quote: |
I will have to do some more research regarding how to replace the wheel bearing, unless anyone wants to hook me up with a good DIY link . |
tighten the nut down until the slotted washer just stops moving, and cotter pin it. _________________ 73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1635 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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your backfire could be an exhaust leak. Check around the header at the cylinder heads. |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Ok guys, was able to mess with the front end a little the other day and I have a few questions (remember I am a newb when it comes to some of this stuff).
The bearing is definitely bad on the passenger side wheel, I can feel it when I spin it.
My first question is where the red arrow in the picture is. There is a collar there that spins on the driver side and does not on the passenger side. Which is correct, should it be free or not?
Next, looking at the blue arrow, should this area have some movement when I grab the spindle and shake it around? It is not a lot of movement and it is the same on both sides but I just want to make sure it is okay.
Now for spindle mount wheels, is the correct order of installation:
1. That "collar" from my first question
2. the inner bearing mounted in the wheel
3. the outer bearing mounted in the wheel
4. a washer with a "key" that slides down the groove on the spindle
5 and lastly the spindle nut.
Am I missing anything?
Also, just wanted to verify, my front end is a LP/KP and not a ball joint correct? |
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Sandjunky Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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The red arrow is your inner bearing race or bearing spacer. It need to come off and clean the paint off. It distributes the load to your bearing and should be smooth. Your new bearings should come with one if I remember correctly. It may stick, but it needs to come off.
Blue arrow. There is probably going to be some play, but I don't know how much is normal. you don't have much weight on the front in a sand rail so I wouldn't stress unless there is a lot of play.
Yes, you have a link pin/ kning pin front end and it has been reinforced at the the spindle and the steering knuckle, which is a good thing. If it was a ball joint front axle then the steering knuckle (vertical piece facing forward under the blue arrow) would be connected with ball joints on top and bottom instead of the solid pins.
1. Wheel bearing spacer (yellow arrow)
2. Dust seal
3. Inner Bearing
4. drum if you are running brake drum
5. Outer bearing
6. Thrust washer
7. Locking washer if you have one (locks spindle nut)
8. Spindle nut with cotter pin
9. Dust cap
Exploded View
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-4210 |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Thanks sandjunky, that answers my questions regarding that part of my issues . Now to get those fixed and move on to the next set of problems. |
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Sandjunky Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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firehorse02 wrote: |
Thanks sandjunky, that answers my questions regarding that part of my issues . Now to get those fixed and move on to the next set of problems. |
I hear you! The fun outweighs the problems though! |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Aerindel Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015 Posts: 459 Location: Western Montana
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Back fire on deceleration is usually an exhaust leak or exhaust system with no back pressure like dual cannons etc. _________________ Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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Sandjunky Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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I don't have any experience with them, but sand sealed suggests that you wouldn't. You could call to be on the safe side. |
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firehorse02 Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2009 Posts: 77 Location: Tehachapi, Ca
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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Aerindel wrote: |
Back fire on deceleration is usually an exhaust leak or exhaust system with no back pressure like dual cannons etc. |
Well my exhaust system is not like the dual cannons. It is your typical stinger style exhaust with a U bend that goes into a muffler. I will have to check it and see if there are any exhaust leaks. Anybody have any good tips/tricks or links to check for exhaust leaks? |
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griffs68 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2015 Posts: 47 Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: First time out |
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hey if you need help finding stuff or messing with it, let me know me and a few buddys down the hill from you have them. Barts Parts (661) 327-5501 should have everything you need for the front bearings in stock. pm me if you want |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:06 am Post subject: Re: First time out |
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The bearings for spindle mount wheels are sealed pre-lubed bearings. They do not get re-packed. There is no separate grease seal with spindle mounts.
The spacer you refer to is just that. A spacer. It should be in place and clean with smooth faces. With the wheel and bearing off the spindle, the spacer might be able to move a little. Normally it is a quite tight fit on the spindle. Sometimes to remove them requires a bearing puller. I have encountered them that were removable by hand. I would be more concerned if your front had drums and stock type bearings. But it will be OK if it can move a little. Once the wheel and bearings and nut are installed, the spacer should be snug as a Bug.
In your list, the only thing you were missing was that with stock thin jam nuts, you need a lock plate that keys into the keyway between the 2 nuts, and then one of the tabs gets bent over the inner nut and the other tab over the outer nut. Then the dust cap is last.
It's better to use the 1-piece clamping style aftermarket spindle nuts.
I would check the gasket between the header flanges and the cylinder heads. An exhaust leak is high on my suspicion list fro back fire on decel. Timing should be about 7° static and should be no more than 30° max advance at 3000rpm. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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