Slow Resurrection

[simpoval]

Hello to thesamba! I'm so glad to be here and have access to the wealth of information and the amazing community. So, I would like to say "Thank You!" in advance. Thank you for the future guidance and patience as I learn the ins and out of my Beetle and the forums.

I found a 1957 Beetle about a year ago. A dream car for me. It has been in storage since then. Now that life has afforded me the time, it's time to get this thing back on the road. The plan is to get it road worthy in a budget friendly manner, drive it for a couple of years, and then make a decision of where I want to go with it.

Here are some 'as found' photos before I bombard everyone with questions.

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[Dake]

Nice find. Looks like you got a great car to work with. More pics please.

[simpoval]

Thanks Dake. I feel very fortunate to have this car. I will post more pics as I take them.

The Bentley manual says “The brake shoes of refaced drums must be fitted with oversize brake linings to correspond with the radius of the braking surface”. Are the oversize linings even still available? Is it better to machine the VW drums or to replace with aftermarket drums? And just for curiosity's sake - I have a beam off of a 58+ could I use these wider brakes from the backing plates and out? If I did this I'm assuming rears would have to be done also. Could I use the same master cylinder? Would I run into any issues with the parking brake cables?

[splitjunkie]

looks like a nice car. I love the OG color. You can take the shoes and drums to a brake shop and have the drums turned if they need it and they can reline the shoes and radius them to match the drums.

You would have to swap the backing plates with all components and the drums if you want to use the later brakes that you have.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[simpoval]

I'm toying with the idea of welding adjusters in the beam to bring the front down and close the fender/wheel gap. Instead of modifying the stock beam could I use the 58+ beam in my 57 Oval?

[Porsche904]

[tisius]

thesamba.com is your friend.
Search for '58 and onwards drum brake conversions. Just please don't be a fool when it comes to brakes, you will need to use them at some point....and they better work properly then
And why not use the oval's front beam; you could use dropped spindles with the stock oval axle (or narrow it for more clearance).
_________________
drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much!

[simpoval]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and advice. It's a huge help!

The (what I'm assuming is) original 36hp engine needs a rebuild. In the meantime I would like to find a used engine. What are my options? I know a guy that says he has bay window bus (not sure of the year). My research says that I can use the engine if it is pre-1973. Am I correct? Would any modifications (clutch, etc) need to be made? What other options do I have? Would any type 1 engine work? Would any modifications be needed if I went this route? What should I be looking for when buying a used engine?

And just for fun, here's a pic.

[simpoval]

Any help identifying this engine. What's the deal with the recycle logo and the "B"? Does this mean it was factory rebuilt? I thought they would have re-stamped a serial number. It looks like 1300-1600sp? Is this correct? Would there be any way to narrow it down? If I used this in my beetle what would I need to do - a 12 volt conversion and change cooling tin? Would any cooling tin from 1300-1600 work? I'm assuming dual port tin is different from single port. Is the tin pretty much bolt in?

[SixVolt]

That could be a 1300 (1966) 6V engine, but it may be a 40HP 6 volt motor missing the heater boxes. I can see from the fan shroud it was fresh air. Check the number below the generator stand and compare to this chart. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php.

You can shove various size upright motors into an oval. There are some limitations. The biggest issues with replacement motors is whether you're running 6 volt or 12 volt and the clutch set up. Several things to consider involving the clutch size, starter bushing, starter (12V or 6V). Looks like you have a way to go to get that on the road so I wouldn't be throwing money at a used engine just yet. If you're going stock, you might consider getting your 36 rebuilt while you work on everything else. If you want something more beefy, get it done while you're working on everything else. Then you're only paying for an engine once.

And tin is different between 40HP and 1300. And the heater box parts are different for fresh air heat vs. stale air heat in the 40HP family.

I'd say if you're looking for a 1600 duel port, just start from scratch. Someone more knowledgable that me will tell you if you can use the 1300 tin (if that's what you have) with a 1600, but I'm pretty sure the 40HP won't fit.

And I'm an old-timer and I will give you one piece of advice. Get a plan together that makes sense economically and realistically and then work the plan. Don't be like me throwing good money at parts and motors without a sense of where you're going. It ends up costing you twice as much in the long run. I've got the receipts to prove it.

[simpoval]

Thanks for the advice SixVolt. I have a rough plan in mind, that will probably evolve over time – nothing too crazy, pretty much stock VW parts even if it is not all exactly year/model correct. For now I would like to get the car running, stopping etc as cost effectively as possible and then at least it is a moving project since I am using borrowed space to work on it. Eventually I would like to get the stock 36hp rebuilt but the cost of vw motors is kind of crazy in my neck of the wood, so this likely won't happen for a while. You can get a V8 for about half of the price. Crazy.

How can you tell if it's 6 or 12 volt? The carb says 12v. I didn't measure the flywheel- I will next time I am out at the car (over an hour away).

I thought that 1300 and 40hp were the same? I'm still trying to figure out what tin, heater boxes, etc. I would need if I put this engine in my '57. Do I have to use fresh air tin or could this be bypassed? Could I use the 36hp fan shroud to accomplish this? (Probably won't do this, just curious) Can I use the 36hp heater boxes with this engine?

There is no number stamped below the generator stand. Just the VW with a circle/arrow around it and the letter “B” next to the remanufacture symbol. The link you posted is dead but I have seen this http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php
It says that it is a recycled short block, before October 1968. Any idea what the “B'” indicates?

[SixVolt]

Sorry for the dead link. I was trying to get you to view these... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=206491

"How can you tell if its 6 volt?"

We'll, that engine in your last pictures isn't hooked up to anything, so I guess we can say its neither. Nevertheless, if you look at the top of the generator you see the voltage regulator (small box) which indicates it was likely a 6 volt set up in its prior use. Generally speaking, 6 volt motors had the voltage regulators mounted to the top of the generator.

What is that motor in your last pics?

Assuming "B" means replacement, I'll take a guess and say its intended use was to replace a 1300 bug or possibly a 1500 bus engine from 1966. It seems (and I could be wrong on this) that the intake manifold looks to be a single port from a 1300 to 1600. See differences here

Of course, you could measure the flywheel or examine the clutch size. Others will know more than me, but I believe some buses in '66 were 1500's and ran 6 volts, but had a larger 200mm clutch. It could also be a 1300 with a 180mm clutch. These were more plentiful, but 1966 bugs only in USA. The carb is a PIC-30 and while they work on 40HP (1200) engines, most 40hp engines ran the 28PIC series carbs.

That oil bath cleaner is another clue, but I'm not up to speed on the style changes, but that doesn't look like a 1500 bus oil bath. Again, that might not even be original to that engine. I'm no help there.

So I don't know a whole lot, but unless and until someone with more knowledge weights in short of tearing it down and measuring the pistons, I'd guess you have a '66 motor. Either a 1300 from a beetle or a 1500 from a bus.