VIN / Chassis number different-why??

[splitjunkie]

[txoval]

If you have the title for the chassis, then technically you do not even need the body tag for the DMV...this only comes into play for resale.

I would remove the incorrect body tag unless you have a title for it as well.

How would the DMV ever know you took it off or replaced it?

You have a title, so it's not like you need a Police inspection to verify it for replacement.

I'm not trying to downplay the law, but this is a pretty common practice for restoration (removing and reinstalling)

[splitjunkie]

I would be more concerned if I only had the title for the body. As has been stated most places are going to look that the chassis number if it ever comes up.
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Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[Abscate]

Removing a VIN plate is a class E felony in my state.

The actual crime us possession of the removed plate, not the removal.
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.ssS!

[Sharp64]

[Irish911]

[Abscate]

[Sharp64]

I've had multiple out of state tickets and the only vin they gave a crap about was the one on the insurance card. They didn't even check the vehicle. I don't see the Highway Patrol making anyone open their trunk or remove the back seat. Was in 2 accidents in my first bug and neither time did anyone ever even check the vin. If someone has a problem with my pan and body not matching if I'm selling it they can move on down the road. If they report it to the cops, I would consider that a dick move. Again, these are 50 year old cars where body and chassis swaps are very common. Unless there is proof of theft no one is going to care.

[azkaty]

This certainly has been an interesting
thread !

[Gary]

[Abscate]

Well before you travel the road to good intentions..watch out for the paving..

Here is one close to home - seller made up a VIN with correct number, but didn't quite use correct font, which was noticed at a car show.

Now in fairly deep excrement...2012 charges filed, but he got ACOD by paying back the buyers cash plus most of his invested restoration.

Story follows.



A Corvette dream has turned into a nightmare for an owner of a 1966 Corvette when he found out that his 427 big block had a forged vehicle identification number.

Robert C. Ernst of North Tonawanda, NY found out about the problem after his Corvette was disqualified from a National Corvette Restorers Society judging event in Ontario last summer.

That revelation has led to criminal charges filed against the man who sold him the Corvette with the allegedly false VIN.


The 65 year old Ernst is no stranger to Corvettes. He says he has restored six vintage Corvettes previously, selling each for a profit.

He bought this Corvette from Ronald Ellis of Wilson, NY for $49,700 after seeing the unrestored car at a Riverside collision shop in 2008. “All Corvettes are kind of significant, but being an older one, the ’63 through ’67 [models] are considered special. This had a 427 [cubic-inch] engine,” Ernst told Thomas Prohaska of the Buffalo News. Ernst says he then spent an additional $75,000 to completely restore the Corvette to its original condition. “It’s some of my retirement money,” he said.

On June 9, 2011, Ernst took the Corvette the NCRS show in London, Ontario.

“There are five teams of judges that go over the areas of the car. I was in the second area when the judge asked me if they could take a picture of the VIN tag,” Ernst said. A few minutes later, the judge returned and told Ernst the Corvette was disqualified because the VIN was counterfeit. The judge told Ernst that the number was right for the car, but the lettering font and die marks on the tag were different than the ones GM used originally in 1966.

Ernst said, “They looked at this thing with a jeweler’s loupe,” a specialized magnifying glass.

After returning from the NCRS event, Ernst told his story to an investigator for the District Attorney’s Office.

“Somewhere along the line, the car might have been stolen and recovered,” Ernst said. “It had this weird sticker on it, ‘GA7558.’?”

The investigation showed the Corvette was originally sold in 1966 by a Chevy dealer in Georgia. It was stolen was eventually recovered by police sometime between 1966-1969. Because the original VIN was missing when it was recovered, Georgia’s Department of Motor Vehicles rebranded it with the GA7558 sticker. That of course, pretty much ruined the Corvette for future collectors.

The history of the Corvette also turned up seven previous owners in Niagara County.

Ernst believes that Georgia sticker was on the car when Ellis purchased the Corvette from a previous owner. He believes that Ellis used the existing VIN on the transmission as the basis for forging the new tag. “Apparently, the transmission never left the car,” Ernst said.

The District Attorney’s office charged Ellis with nine felonies – second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument, forgery of a VIN, illegal possession of a VIN and five counts of offering a false instrument for filing.

Ellis has pleaded not guilty and the case is pending before the North Tonawanda City Court. Herbert Greenman is an attorney representing Ellis and says that his client had nothing to do with the replacement VIN tag.

“My client’s a terrific guy. He’s got a good job and a good family. He’s never had anything to do with the law,” Greenman said and added “What was happening with the VIN took place long before my client had the car. What Mr. Ernst believes to be a Georgia VIN, my client had nothing to do with.”
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.ssS!

[Sharp64]

I never once said to fake or falsify a VIN. Let's makes sure we're comparing apples and oranges. And we are talking about a $50k Corvette that someone turned around and spent another $75k restoring. I'd be pissed too if I was out $125k for what I thought was a true, unmolested numbers matching big block Vette. Am I advocating anyone forging VINs so they can match and misrepresenting the car as numbers matching? No. Do I feel its within reason to remove the body VIN if the car is titled on the pan and the body has been replaced? Owners call for sure. Or in my case, where everything I look at indicates the body and pan are actually original to one another, but someone replaced the apron as it was in a fender bender? Why not? As long as it is represented as such I see no issue.

[KTPhil]

If it were me, and the title and registration are to the chassis number on the tunnel, I'd remove the plate under the hood. All it can do is make trouble. If challenged, explain that the front clip was replaced long ago by a previous owner, and have the owners manual page handy showing the true chassis number under the back seat.

[Dirtylittle70Bugger]

Altered Vin vehicle law is what gets most people. Doesn't Have to be altered or faked to be charged with it. It doesn't apply simply to forgery or deciet. Now I can and will only speak in regards to my neck of the woods. Things vary slightly from state to state but stay mostly the same. Simply removing it for a restoration, for the vehicle it lawfully belongs to. Can land you in jail. Taking a VIN plate off a part from another vehicle can do it too. Keep in mind this is not a common occurrence. It takes a trained eye with lots of expierence in that field. Or a very poorly executed install to get caught. Bodies and pans get swapped. Body sections are spliced in or replaced after accidents. Nothing illegal about that as long as the parts aren't stolen. But once you pull or swap tag(s) or change numbers, or install reproduction/restoration tags, tread carefully. This is one of those things that word of mouth tends to dilute the info and people don't get the full scoop. And I'll say it again. If the factory put it on, I'd leave it alone. Things like that only get removed to deceive. If your car was banged up and clipped. So what, probably more than half the VWs out there have been. If it's a factory goof up, even better. Unique story to tell. I hope everything turns out in your favor with the car. The info is just something to consider. Not fire and brimstone.
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

1967 VW Beetle, Java Green, 1500SP, Roof Rack, trailer hitch

[Dirtylittle70Bugger]

[Sharp64]

Just an observation, that the two here that truly feel this is an issue appear to be in the same general area. I'm sure there is some variance from state to state, but I would venture a guess that certain states, perhaps NY or maybe California tend to be considerably more strict about these things than other states, say like Florida that hasn't had vehicle inspections for I think going on 40 years now. Heck, my vehicle was purchased out of Texas, but the seller ended up going across the state lines and getting it titled in Oklahoma since its easier and quicker. As mentioned, some states don't even issue titles for vehicles over a certain age. I believe it may very well depend on the state and general culture. I would further venture a guess that more southern or rural areas are probably a lot more lax about these things than some places.

[All_talk]

[grandpa pete]

get it straightened out BEFORE the accident where someone gets hurt ; and the insurance company won't pay because "they don't insure that car "
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery