Transmission quandary (manual)

[bobbyblack]

So, I finally was able to loosen my trans plugs and drain the oil. How much does used manual trans fluid smell like ATF? Seemed mighty red in color, and very loose in the drain pan even after sitting overnight on a 45F concrete floor in the drain pan. Anyway, its stinky. I want to wash out the interior, is that something people do? Perhaps a couple quarts of Marvels, or SeaFoam, or something?

Anyway, I am a bit concerned with the stuff on the magnetic drain plug. The biggest flake looks to be a shear off the edge of a gear. Here are a few pix. Should I be looking for a spare to get rebuilt? I have found 3 junked ones within about 200 miles thus far.

Thanks

Same flake here, just for perspective, and best I could do with focus.

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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[insyncro]

Pull the bell housing and take a look inside, inspect parts...
Doing so will give you the next info needed to make a decision on what to do.

Thus far, I would plan for a total rebuild.

[bobbyblack]

Thanks InSyncro. I see some evidence of oil escaping from the bell housing from the outside. Maybe not 'bad' but is any leak good?

Ya, I'm looking at a bigger project, I guess. The EJ22 (automatic) is still waiting in the driveway. I have the $'s now to order a kit, but this transmission thing has me wondering about going to the transmission swap in addition. Sourcing that and getting the kit and the work lined up together with the engine swap... I'm wallowing.

I had been going toward Merc rims (have the set, and the hardware/spacers) to accommodate big brakes in front. Spendy kit there too. Funds evaporate into the vanagon mist.

So, wallowing.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Abscate]

If time is short, put fresh oil in to spec, run for a week, then pull the plug again and inspect for particles. If you make up a cork bung, you can do this without draining too much trans fluid. If you don't have a lot of fur second time, drive with it usual caution after topping up the fluid.
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.ssS!

[dobryan]

If you do that EJ22 conversion you'll be likely pushing that trans harder than you did with the wbx, so I'd be going for a look inside and getting ready for a rebuild. (Nice time to add a Peloquin BTW, I like spending other folks money. )

I'd put the merc wheels and bigger brakes on hold for a while and use that money toward the tranny...
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[bobbyblack]

dobryan,

Good thinking there. I already wanted to do a transmission rebuild (well, ok, I'd have it done by some talent) and put in the taller stuff for lower RPMs at 65mph. That all told would be the cost of the conversion kit, if I'm calculating it close enough.

Maybe the EJ22 has to wait a little longer.

Thanks
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[dobryan]

I had a tranny with a 0.77 fourth gear and did not like the power loss going up hills, even with the EJ25 (slightly taller third too). When I had to get that trans rebuilt I went back to stock gearing and am very happy with the result. IMO too many folks try to reduce the rpm on the highway (I was one of them) when the EJ22/25 is happy to run at 4000 rpms all day long.... I think I am currently going 3800 rpm at 70 mph with 205/70/15 tires. YMMV.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[chompy]

[bobbyblack]

Last I looked, the suabgeers was quite pricey. Not sure how to manage that.

I had to go take a look on the road. 14" rims with BFG AT KOs I think 195/75/14

Looks a lot like about 3600 @ 60 ish (speedo is off a bit)

Oh, and look at what the PO had sitting above the cluster:

Anyone notice? I drove it for a while with the 'wash-me-out' 90 weight oil over lunch, and she turned 275K (admittedly, I drove it more than just my allowed time for lunch, me bad )

The shifting was for crap. Very hard to push into 1st when standing. Can't downshift into 2nd, or 1st.

Redline MT90 comes tomorrow. Will drain it overnight again tonight.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

[bobbyblack]

Sodo,

Sounds a lot like I should not waste the MT90 that will be coming tomorrow. I did run a while with some standard 90wt man-trans oil (no FLAPS around here, just tractor place) I think I put on 50 miles over 'lunch'.

I was going to just drain that out again tonight. I also got 2 gallons of that 90wt, as I use the same stuff in my toro gang mowers. I could wash it out a couple times, really. I can also use the oil in my dual-fuel furnace (wood/fuel oil) so nothing truly lost, really. Maybe not 'green' in most eyes, but not as wasteful as some.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

I'm pretty sure you can only drain 2/3 of the oil in there, 1/3 remains captured. There are two issues WRT this.

1) You won't have fresh MT90, you will have 2/3 fresh MT90 mixed with 1/3 highly contaminated oil.

2) I you flush once you will have 2/3 MT-90 mixed with flush oil that's "2/3 cleaner than the dirty oil" which is not all that comforting.

3) If you flush twice you will have 1/6 dirty oil and 5/6 MT-90

It goes on and on getting cleaner and cleaner. Theres something to be said for flushing it twice, or more than 3x, with lighter oils such as ATF or even used motor oil if you happened to KNOW it was drained a sanitary manner. Or go ahead and drain your engine (carefully) and use that. Oil that was in an engine is much better than the metal-contaminated oil that's in your trans. Don't drive with light oil in there, do it wheels spinning on jackstands not driving. Not sure expensive oil is your friend here. Clean FLAPS often is probably better (IMHO).

No doubt your trans needs to come apart, but clean oil at least slow the decline.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[bobbyblack]

Not totally sure on the fully drained vs partial. I read about a dozen threads on that topic, came to the understanding that raising the front up was the method to get a full drain. I have my shop setup with a set of "docks" and then ramps down to the floor, the effect was "raised front" as I backed it down the ramps about half way. The docks allow me to have a couple feet of clearance below my vehicles to do stuff like oil changes, etc. Not a true oil pit, but something sort of close, I guess.

Anyway, I am sure that more oil came out with it on a slant than flat. Not sure of how much more, but at least some more.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Syncro Jael]

If you have access to or want to purchase a video scope you can inspect some of the internals without removing the tranny. You can take a good look at the R&P for sure.

If I was planning to spend the coin on an engine conversion, I'd also add a rebuilt transaxle. Then you should be worry free for many miles.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[bobbyblack]

ugh.. ya, I am getting a sinking feeling. Big brakes, canvas for pop-top, window seals, door seals all now on chopping block to accommodate transmission project.

Damn this budget crap!!

So, I guess, I better find out if there are any decent rebuilders in the midwest, (Im nearest to Minneapolis) or if a Rancho on a Grayhound ticket is within reach.. Core or shipping mine out needs clarity. Grrr, downtime!!!
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

Found a used one from a '90 with 5 year warranty, free shipping. just under $900.

Here in 3 days...

Good deal?
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

Sounds too good to be true. R&R is worth $400-$600, that won't be covered if you find its a worn out unit.

Wonder what their warranty is. For example if the drainplug magnet has a wild afro what will they do? What if someone already looked at it, did they wipe it off? Wouldn't anybody who had it out? Will they give your money back if you remove the bellhousing and LOOK, and find funk in there?

This tranny thing has a lot of pitfalls, pretty much have to take your chances. could be less risk applying the money towards a rebuild by a good shop. But it could be a LOT depending what they find in your trans.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[hdenter]

That depends on who did the rebuild...

Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[bobbyblack]

What year did the 3/4 slider go from a square hole to an oval one? Seems like around 86 or 87?

The $900 one is used, not rebuilt. Hence, a 'take your chances' kind of deal.

I agree, who wouldn't take a look at the plug, and get the hair off it...

I am starting to get a nervous sweat. I don't like having to backtrack on my budget. I guess I better find my 'cool-zone' again, and just do what feels right.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

I think it was 1989 1/2?

Unlikely a '90 trans has never been rebuilt. And depending in who's been in there, maybe several times.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb