Transmission quandary (manual)

[dhaavers]

From GoWesty, FWIW:

[bobbyblack]

Thanks dhavvers, with info from GoWesty. Much appreciated.

It was a bad night of sleep.

Yesterday, I took the rig home, and couldn't help wondering just what the heck to do. I sold my '67 doublecab to fund this little adventure, and it didn't bring as much as I asked, but I had to get going on this. Now my budget is getting skewed. I will look for a used 90 or 91 and consider the serial number info relevant. I would guess getting mine shipped out, rebuilt, and shipped back would be a lengthy ordeal, and the 'season' is fast approaching!!!

Yet another issue that just started to pop up the evening that I was 'warming up' the original-to-me trans oil: a slight clutch shudder. As I drove home last night it occurred to me that there is probably some kind of oil starting to leak into the clutch area. I had this happen in a Bay in 1988 on the way up to AK. It was the transmission main seal. Not a hard part to deal with if the engine weren't in the way. Ended up with a burned flywheel.

So, it looks much like this at this point:

Get the used '90+ transmission.
Get the swap kit.
Sell the 2.1 WBX to my friend, so he can go camp with his family (wife and 2 kids) and maybe use those $'s for the brake kit.
See whats left in budget for canvas, door seals and new window seals, so I can get the whole thing sprayed after I get the dings out.

Ugh! Why did I want yet another VW!!!!

(ok, its called Love)
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[dobryan]

Out of curiosity why the emphasis on a front big brake kit? The stock front brakes are quite good unless you do a LOT of mountain driving and are worried about having a solid rotor vs vented. I've been running stock front brakes for years with no issues.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[bobbyblack]

dobryan,

Regarding the big brakes; I drive this full Westy with a heavy load. Camping gear, bikes, and my 3 kids. They are all adult size people. Not quite adult years, but gaining at an alarming rate. Sometimes I let my kids drive the rig. They are used to modern cars. We mostly drive Toyota Highlanders. Huge engines, and huge brakes. I like them for the stuff they are good for. I mainly like them for passing the slow-pokes going less than 60, on two lane roads. Get-r-up, get-r-back-down, speed wise. Going back and forth from rig to rig can cause some slight differences in how brakes bite to be the difference in inches or microseconds that makes or brakes the deal when in an unexpected situation. I'd like the added microseconds, if I can get them for a reasonable price.

Also, it seems like a package deal, going to the EJ22, put in the upgraded brakes to match.

I know its not a true necessity, and therefore it got put later in the plans now that I have to consider the transmission issue.

I am also pretty positive about the 2.1 WBX, as I did the reseal myself, finished on December 23rd '15. I could just go with the WBX for a while and hope the 2.1 rod bolts hold. I don't really mind the 0-60 times near a minute.... Oh wait. Yes, I do.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

Well... the right oil is here. I guess. I don't believe it should be put in what I have now. Way to spend $57 for something I won't use for a while.

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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Sodo]

[bobbyblack]

From a cross post, found while waiting for the next available agent...

crazyvwvanman:

DK - 80-83 aircooled
DU - 83-84 WBX
ABD - 85-86 WBX
ACW - 86-91 WBX
DX - 83 diesel

Mark
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

I drove about 100 miles and I again drained the MT oil. I didn't see any chunks in the oil tonight, but I did see a froth. However, there was indeed a bit more metal on the oil plug. Way less, just saying 'some'. The stuff that had been left in the case at first change I guess. More fir.

On my roughly 100 mile run, the second half I was able to catch 2nd in downshifting remarkably better, and even the 2nd to 1st was more slick on 8 of my 10 tries. Pulled downshifting from 2nd to 1st significantly better!?!?!?

I got to wondering if I was imagining things. Perhaps the shudder I feel on clutch release may not be what I was remembering from '88 in a Bay - a transmission main seal leak. Could it be something in the hydraulic clutch causing the shudder, or perhaps a failed clutch component causing imbalance? Cracked spring?

Still scratching my head here.

btw: nobody ever picked up the call I repeatedly placed to the 877 number for the used transmission I've been courting. Rang and rang and rang, then the automated attendant said to hold on, and i would be helped in the order I had called. Seemed like I was getting gamed. First guess I had was that they listed a 1992 Vanagon.

-bobby
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[gears]

"MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears"

http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7

[Tom Powell]

[bobbyblack]

gears, TP,

You both have points, well taken into consideration. Many posts on just your references. Im no expert here. Just going off dozens of other posts, and information that seems relevant to the topic.

It is true that the hypoid language does accompany the product. However, the degree of the hypoid nature in the 091 is supposedly low enough to put that portion of concern into a lower category. This is not my science here, it is from what I have gathered through reading.

Anyway, my present concern is more to do with the developing shudder as I take my foot off the clutch pedal. I did have fair success with dowshifting into 2nd and 1st yesterday. Its more that the whole system is getting too tired.

Looking more and more likely that the WBX will be coming out. I swore a promise to myself that when that engine came out, it was getting a conversion. The WBX is fine if it just stays, but now that it seems to need to come out, I am trying to stay on track with my promises.

Im just trying to line up a different transmission now.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[insyncro]

Swepco 201

[bobbyblack]

from another thread:

[Abscate]

Im seeing residual fir from the delayed first change. If you did one more change I bet you would have almost none. I wouldn't even change it again, though, just clean off the tiny bit and run happy.

Monitor that clutch to see if its getting worse. Dont sweat the transmission.
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.ssS!

[Sodo]

Just wanna note that if you used $15 FLAPS 90 GL5 for first flush, you could do the 2nd flush/change at the drop of a hat..... (only $15 'loss'). To prolong usage of a worn out trans I'd be inclined to use a thicker, wickeder oil than MT-90. After a thorough flushing you can observe the magnet and discern between new afro or old afro. Or assume.

This is some hardcore shadetree, not sure if you're wired for that but you do have a type1 on your avatar.

If you're inclined to "reclaim" that fancy MT90,,, note that the metal in it will drop to the bottom, and if you decant the clear fluid off the top you can (elect to) re-use probably 95% of it. I don't know how long this takes, (a week? a month?) but you can notice a significant stratification and clarity just overnight. It's also reasonable to drop a magnet into the container and shift it slowly, carefully around daily. Last position should be where it won't shift while decanting.

Maybe attach a wire to the magnet. On a plastic bottle you can use a 2nd magnet on the bottom, to hold, or to move the magnet inside. Collect a load of hard drive (rare-earth) magnets, and "tile" a "settling pad" for your plastic jug purification station. Just an idea.

Note that a rare-earth magnet out of a hard drive has a large surface area, perhaps 10x the capacity to capture and hold steel, as the drain magnet. Now if you had 20 of them you could capture some steel.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[bobbyblack]

Yes, I do have type 1, but the one in my avatar had a bad lower ball, and my dad had it crushed while I was in FL one summer since he hadn't seen it driven in a while. I have a Ghia now to cover my type 1 slot. In the Type 2 category, I have a '65 Deluxe as well as the '87. My dad crushed 2 of my type 2 T2's as well, one was a tintop full camper and even a driver... I have a '63 Type 3 Notchback too.

My dad was just trying to clean up the yard. Perhaps he has gotten a better idea now that I have sold a few of my other Type 2 splits recently. I didn't mention the ones he crushed, I just let him do some thinking on that.

One friend of mine told me he had bought 37 cars to drive in his life, and I was the only person who he knew that had bought more cars that drove. I didn't mention to him that I had about as many that I got for a few dollars that didn't run. Most of those were 1$, just to have a paper trail, those people just wanted them gone.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[bobbyblack]

Today I finished the clutch bleed. Well, I should say, I ran a quart of brake fluid through the system, used the whole thing. It did finally run clear. Then I went for a spin. I noticed that the clutch was a lot easier to get into gear with the new transmission oil. Hardly any shudder or chatter or whatever that is called. However, It became clear very quickly that there is something else wrong. The clutch is not holding well at all. I have to think a while on this.

Seems that either my idea that there is a leak inside the bell housing, oil of some sort getting on the clutch disk, or somehow, the bleeding process has made the clutch not fully engage. Can air in the system make it not fully engage? I thought it was the other way around. I noticed in the parts cache that the PO left, there is a spare, probably the previous one. Maybe I better take a look at that, to see if it gives up any clues.

I have to wonder now, do people take out transmissions without taking out the engine? Just trying to get around my promise to myself regarding the next time that the WBX comes out, it gets replaced. There doesn't seem to be anything specifically wrong with the engine.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[candyman]

Yes. Way easier to remove trans w/o removing engine. Still a bit of a pita but not horrible. Syncro trans are more time consuming

[gears]

The two versions of updated OEM hub are shown in this photo. The one at 3 o'clock isn't much better than the square slot one at the top. The nitrided one on the bottom is way more reliable, and the Weddle one at the left is the most reliable.

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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[bobbyblack]

Good webpage on transmission removal, engine left in.

http://volksweb.relitech.com/clutch.htm
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch