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1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help
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free_berg
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:24 pm    Post subject: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

I need help.

A few years ago I drove down from Canada to Utah to pick up a 1980 air cooled Vanagaon that had been converted into a motorhome, similar to the style of the Karman Gipsy Coachbuilt motorhomes predominantly found in Europe.

This was to me to be a long term project of sorts, as well as a place to live, the eventual idea was to convert the engine to a faster and more powerful Turbo diesel with a bio-diesel conversion so I could eventually fuel the motorhome off some sort of renewable fuel source. I wanted to retrofit it with solar panels and rainwater catchment, as well as a small wood stove and to be as self sustaining and earth friendly as possible. Yet on the drive home, driving a large, heavy vehicle with a small, older air-cooled engine through the desert in the middle of summer forced the engine to overheat, needing a complete rebuild or replace. Somehow, through the help of a good friend and mechanic who was on the trip with me, we managed to tow the motorhome all the way back to Canada, with the goal of switching the gas motor for a diesel and all that needed to change as well... But this was over a year ago. And for some reason there has been roadblocks after roadblocks and Im not finding the help and resources or interested people to help me make this dream happen. So I'm really not sure how to move forward.

The more time I've spent with the motorhome, the more I've realized that this is a bigger project that I could have imagined, will need to overhaul the suspension, the roof was leaking, the walls being made out of extremely heavy MDF needing to be replaced, doors that need replacing as well, moldy inside bunks, half finished toilet and sink structure, awkward electrical wiring, etc. the list goes on. The hardest part is that these projects are all beyond my scope of capabilities as I am not a carpenter, mechanic, electrician, or a plumber and everything is half done and in need of over redesign to be done correctly. Recently I've noticed the rust around the windshield is getting worse, is this fatal, is there any coming back from this?

Despite all those challenges that I could presumably work on myself, the main thing I can't work on learn how is the engine and the diesel conversion. Now I know what you're thinking. This chick is nuts right? Why bother? Scrap the damn thing already, and believe me this is my last resort. I am writing on here asking for some reasonable solutions and advice from folks who are more experienced with these sorts of challenges than me. Any am open to any and all suggestions keeping in mind my goals of self sufficiency from gas or propane. I believe in retrofitting rather than simply buying new and scraping and am willing to put in the time and money if it is a good investment, But at this point I am open to this possibly being a dead end project and willing to let it go.

Anyone interested in this as a project? Am I insane to want to do this? Is this a great idea? Is the rust a death sentence? Any thoughts, advice or resources, names or numbers of places to begin with people to help with diesel engine conversions, how to would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


Last edited by free_berg on Tue May 24, 2016 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Yes you are insane.

This sounds like a world of pain.

Waste of time and money.

Free yourself from this.

Mike
'82 Westy diesel AAZ (conversion)
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Well Mike didn't sugar-coat it - possibly because he wanted to be sure you understood his message.

I have to agree - this is a one-way ticket to Vanagon Heartbreak. I'm sure it is hard to admit defeat and walk away but from your description it sounds like moving forward with this will be even worse.
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outcaststudios
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

she shoudl get rid of this asap. find something better.
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Gruppe B
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

I think your standards are too high and you should roll it as is.

If it was a splitty we'd all be fighting over it. Now get to work, in thirty years you'll thank me
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

To do a Diesel conversion you would need a pile of Vanagon Diesel parts like the engine mounts and oil pan and such. They are not laying around just anywhere and thus would be fairly hard to source. You would also need to install a radiator and if you intend to drive it any time it isn't warm out, like during summer nights you are going to need to install a heater set up.

If you could lighten the load enough so that the air cooled engine could get the job done that would be best in my opinion, maybe tossing the oxygen sensor and setting the AFM to the rich side to keep the engine from self destructing.

Overall I would agree with others though. Put it up for sale, get what you can out of it and move on to some other rig in better condition.
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Is it this one? The interior is damn nice!

From the coachbuilt thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535956&start=60

pedrokrusher wrote:
Here is a special one!

For sale add here:
https://stgeorge.craigslist.org/rvs/4717962865.html
Quote:
1980 vanagan one of a kind - $2900
RV one of a kind, drives AWESOME, everything works, inside totally renovated, sink works, stove, fridge, ac, toilet, brand new tires, New battery, New wire harness, New ECM, New enjecter hoses. everything has been gone through. I bought it from a friend that didn't have time for it after the he did the interior. after I spent $1200 to make it dependable I have to sell it, long story. come check it out, my name is Nick call or text anytime.


And the pictures saved on thesamba photo gallery so we can still view it when the add goes away.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025
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Mike Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

How does the van in the pictures move?

An air cooled with all that to haul, wow.

Mind boggled.

M
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DwarfVader
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Mike Robinson wrote:
How does the van in the pictures move?

An air cooled with all that to haul, wow.

Mind boggled.

M


very very slowly.
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free_berg
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Haha.. Yep thats the one! It ran no problem when I first got it, unfortunately it didn't make it back as nice as I outlined in my story. The interior is nice but all the materials they used were heavy and not really motorhome appropriate and they did do a lot of work but getting it back to a wetter climate the seals weren't sealed properly and Ive since found water damage and lots of other issues that are adding up.

Im starting to lean more towards rebuilding the current motor, gutting all the heavy materials and slowly working back from there, making it as light as possible so hopefully the air cooled engine isn't too overworked..

I appreciate all the feedback everyone, even the bleak realizations. Im considering it all..
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

That vehicle needs a TDI to move it along at modern speeds and with an efficiency that makes sense for a road trip machine.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

I, for one, do not recall previously seeing a Vanagon fitted with duallys.

Gruppe B wrote:
...Now get to work, in thirty years you'll thank me


Given the description and plan - 30 years should be just about right.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Yeah, those hubs would be interesting to see
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AZ Landshaper
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

I am literally laughing out loud when I think about that thing with an air cooled motor. The windy drives must be an absolute nightmare.
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Mike Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

I am dubious if the duallys would get past a saftey here in BC.

I wonder how they did it?

You will be putting $4,000 minimum into an engine rebuild.

Run Forest run.

Mike
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free_berg
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

Seems as though the gas diesel conversion is not impossible.. This guy did it with a 74' Motorhome! http://thelatebay.com/index.php?threads/going-tdi-anyone-with-knowledge-to-help-smooth-way.42637/

Or this I find very interesting and helpful: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=499268
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

free_berg wrote:
Haha.. Yep thats the one! It ran no problem when I first got it, unfortunately it didn't make it back as nice as I outlined in my story. The interior is nice but all the materials they used were heavy and not really motorhome appropriate and they did do a lot of work but getting it back to a wetter climate the seals weren't sealed properly and Ive since found water damage and lots of other issues that are adding up.

Im starting to lean more towards rebuilding the current motor, gutting all the heavy materials and slowly working back from there, making it as light as possible so hopefully the air cooled engine isn't too overworked..

I appreciate all the feedback everyone, even the bleak realizations. Im considering it all..


Yeah, pictures does not show all the little details, or if its heavy or light. I do think the interior looks really nice! The outside edges holding with screws does not seem right. Maybe change that edge with something more water tight and you could be ready to go in no time.

My personal advice is to do exactly what you are saying here, to rebuild what you have, simply drive slower, like 55 mph, and enjoy the ride and go sight seeing as much as you can... Enjoying life right now! An engine transplant going to water cooled from a air cooled vanagon will eat all your savings and then no more for travellng... Wanna dump minimum 15k for that?

I would say go easy with the interior "modeling" to make it lighter. It adds up pretty quickly moneytarly. I believe you wont achieve much here by lighting it up, its a big box! Unless the water damage is extensive and have no choice.

Good luck with your new adventures!
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1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025


Last edited by pedrokrusher on Tue May 24, 2016 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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free_berg
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

pedrokrusher wrote:
Yeah, pictures does not show all the little details, or if its heavy or light. I do think the interior looks really nice! The outside edges holding with screws does not seem right. Maybe change that edge with something more water tight and you could be ready to go in no time.

My personal advice is to do exactly what you are saying here, to rebuild what you have, simply drive slower, like 55 mph, and enjoy the ride and go sight seeing as much as you can... Enjoying life right now! An engine transplant going to water cooled from a air cooled vanagon will eat all your savings and then no more for travellng... Wanna dump minimum 15k for that?

I would say go easy with the interior "modeling" to make it lighter. It adds up pretty quickly monetarly. I believe you wont achieve much here by lighting it up, its a big box! Unless the water damage is extensive and have no choice.

Good luck with your new adventures!


Thank you Pedro, I appreciate the advice, this living in the moment and facing up and enjoying what I currently have is the direction I am leaning..
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DAV!D
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

free_berg wrote:
I need help.

A few years ago I drove down from Canada to Utah to pick up a 1980 air cooled Vanagaon that had been converted into a motorhome, similar to the style of the Karman Gipsy Coachbuilt motorhomes predominantly found in Europe.

This was to me to be a long term project of sorts, as well as a place to live, the eventual idea was to convert the engine to a faster and more powerful Turbo diesel with a bio-diesel conversion so I could eventually fuel the motorhome off some sort of renewable fuel source. I wanted to retrofit it with solar panels and rainwater catchment, as well as a small wood stove and to be as self sustaining and earth friendly as possible. Yet on the drive home, driving a large, heavy vehicle with a small, older air-cooled engine through the desert in the middle of summer forced the engine to overheat, needing a complete rebuild or replace. Somehow, through the help of a good friend and mechanic who was on the trip with me, we managed to tow the motorhome all the way back to Canada, with the goal of switching the gas motor for a diesel and all that needed to change as well... But this was over a year ago. And for some reason there has been roadblocks after roadblocks and Im not finding the help and resources or interested people to help me make this dream happen. So I'm really not sure how to move forward.

The more time I've spent with the motorhome, the more I've realized that this is a bigger project that I could have imagined, will need to overhaul the suspension, the roof was leaking, the walls being made out of extremely heavy MDF needing to be replaced, doors that need replacing as well, moldy inside bunks, half finished toilet and sink structure, awkward electrical wiring, etc. the list goes on. The hardest part is that these projects are all beyond my scope of capabilities as I am not a carpenter, mechanic, electrician, or a plumber and everything is half done and in need of over redesign to be done correctly. Recently I've noticed the rust around the windshield is getting worse, is this fatal, is there any coming back from this?

Despite all those challenges that I could presumably work on myself, the main thing I can't work on learn how is the engine and the diesel conversion. Now I know what you're thinking. This chick is nuts right? Why bother? Scrap the damn thing already, and believe me this is my last resort. I am writing on here asking for some reasonable solutions and advice from folks who are more experienced with these sorts of challenges than me. Any am open to any and all suggestions keeping in mind my goals of self sufficiency from gas or propane. I believe in retrofitting rather than simply buying new and scraping and am willing to put in the time and money if it is a good investment, But at this point I am open to this possibly being a dead end project and willing to let it go.

Anyone interested in this as a project? Am I insane to want to do this? Is this a great idea? Is the rust a death sentence? Any thoughts, advice or resources, names or numbers of places to begin with people to help with diesel engine conversions, how to would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


You need to look at each thing as a isolated project and knock them out one by one. Don't set your self up for failure by thinking oh this will take for ever. pick something you can complete in a reasonable amount of time and do it. Then do the next and the next.. You will build confidence by finishing smaller projects.

Don't dwell on this or that just figure out what you need to do and get it done. The reason most people take forever to build something or give up before they are finished is because they don't "just do it". They make excuses to them self that this is hard or that's hard, you just need to want it bad enough and stay focused.

Personally, I think it's kinda cool, but certainly needs a better motor.. If it were me, I'd throw the biggest subaru I could get attached to one of the reversed subaru trans-axles.

The diesel would be nice but you are still pushing a lot of weight on that vanagon transaxle. I'd just modernize the entire drive-line including the trans.. The revered pinion is like $1.5k but then you don't have to buy that $500-600 dollar adapter plate.

Also, it only cost $5-10k to upgrade a motor if you buy every pre-made bolt on kit item from the various shops. I did my one off ecotec swap for around 2.5k because the only "kit" item I bought was the adapter plate. I sourced all my needed parts and made what I had to. I didn't pay the easy tax, I just did the work to figure out what was needed myself.

All those bolt on kit parts make it easier at a "cost".
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1980 VW Vanagon Motorhome challenges - Needing help Reply with quote

free_berg wrote:
pedrokrusher wrote:
Yeah, pictures does not show all the little details, or if its heavy or light. I do think the interior looks really nice! The outside edges holding with screws does not seem right. Maybe change that edge with something more water tight and you could be ready to go in no time.

My personal advice is to do exactly what you are saying here, to rebuild what you have, simply drive slower, like 55 mph, and enjoy the ride and go sight seeing as much as you can... Enjoying life right now! An engine transplant going to water cooled from a air cooled vanagon will eat all your savings and then no more for travellng... Wanna dump minimum 15k for that?

I would say go easy with the interior "modeling" to make it lighter. It adds up pretty quickly monetarly. I believe you wont achieve much here by lighting it up, its a big box! Unless the water damage is extensive and have no choice.

Good luck with your new adventures!


Thank you Pedro, I appreciate the advice, this living in the moment and facing up and enjoying what I currently have is the direction I am leaning..


You are welcome free berg, forgot to mention that you absolutely need to put a tarp over the top of that camper in your area. It just rains all the time there... All the freaking time!
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Pedro
1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025
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