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1974 Baja Build **pic heavy**
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MIBaja
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Another quick question. Does anyone know the thread for these seat bolts. I need to retap one of the seats as it is stripped, and i can not find any information on it.

http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/seat-back-pivot-bolt-kit-car-set-4-pieces-317915
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Because you have LED tail lights, you don't have the proper resistance of the bulbs to properly heat the mechanical element in the flasher module. You will need to either find an electronic flasher with similar VW pin outs, or add a incandescent bulb, or resister somewhere in the turn signal circuit.
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MIBaja
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Ok That makes sense to me, but why would they work (how I would expect them to work) when the car is off or in acc mode, but not when the car is in run? I would expect them to work the same in both modes. I was assuming there was just some wire run to the wrong location. Last night I got the broken bolt out, so that was good. Didnt get too much done as it got dark pretty quick. I have a 8.3 Ohm resistor that I will try to add to the system and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

I hooked up the resistor last night in parallel to the turn signals and it worked so, it looks like I will be ordering a electronic flasher relay. I went to advance auto since it shows they have them in the store, but they were unable to find them. Question on the engine in beetles. I am unable to get the motor to run since I have redone the wiring, I dont think it is a wiring issue as I have gotten it to run for very short periods of time, and it seems to backfire. When I originally set the timing and adjusted the fuel/ air screws to get it running it was colder out. Do they usually require new tuning as the seasons change? Is it usually just the fuel air mix that needs to change or do i have to adjust the timing to be more or less advanced? Im heading out west skiing tomorrow so I will not be touching the beetle till next week. Hopefully that will allow me to order some parts and get them when I get home.
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MIBaja
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

So last night I was able to get my other front seat fixed, the bolts are m12x 1. for future reference. I got both front seats installed. Also worked on trying to get it running. I reset the points to .016, readjusted the timing, put a new condenser on. I was able to get it to run for a second then it would die. I still need to adjust the idle and fuel air mix screws. Is there a way to realign the distributor? When I see pictures of others engines the distributor seems to be rotated more clockwise than mine is. Mine is as far counter clockwise as it can be as the condenser hits on the fuel pump. I have thought about mounting the condenser upside down which would give a little more rotation. I think I am still slightly off on the timing. I feel like there is probably a way to rebuild the distributor or something to adjust where the rotor is positioned when the pulley is TDC. Anyway I ordered more parts and they should be here when I get back from vacation.
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Dark Earth
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

MIBaja wrote:
Is there a way to realign the distributor? When I see pictures of others engines the distributor seems to be rotated more clockwise than mine is. Mine is as far counter clockwise as it can be as the condenser hits on the fuel pump. I have thought about mounting the condenser upside down which would give a little more rotation. I think I am still slightly off on the timing. I feel like there is probably a way to rebuild the distributor or something to adjust where the rotor is positioned when the pulley is TDC. Anyway I ordered more parts and they should be here when I get back from vacation.


The distributor doesn't care which post is used to fire the #1 spark plug. The best way to determine TDC is to pull the valve cover. Pulling the valve cover may ruin the gasket.

So, get some valve cover gaskets and pull the valve covers. You can adjust your valves while you do your tuneup. There are two positions on the crankshaft pulley that look like TDC. By pulling the valve cover, you can determine which of the two "TDC's" is the right one. The way to see if the #1 cylinder is at TDC is to wiggle the rocker arms. If the engine is at true TDC, both rocker arms on the #1 cylinder will have play. They should be at 0.006" cold. If one of the rocker arms is pushing a valve open, roll the engine around until you are at TDC on the pulley again and check for play. Then you'll know you're at true TDC.

If your distributor drive is installed correctly, at true TDC, it will look like this ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And, your rotor will be positioned like this ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If your rotor is not positioned like this, just loosen the distributor clamp and rotate the distributor until the rotor is pointed at another spark plug post on the distributor cap. You can rotate the distributor to any of the four positions and choose which distributor cap tower will power the #1 plug wire. The distributor doesn't care which distributor cap post powers the #1 cylinder as long as the valves are closed when the plug fires. Once you decide which position works best, this will be your new #1 spark plug tower. Just put the number one spark plug wire on the distributor cap tower that lines up with the rotor. You'll have to re-arrange the other spark plug wires in order around the distributor cap as well. Now just button up the valve covers and time the engine and you should be good.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

I disagree. Sorta...

Some Bosch distributors DO care which post is used to fire cylinder #1. More accurately, they care which post is used to fire cylinder #3. In some distributors, such as the 009 and the SVDA, #3 is retarded slightly in comparison to the posts for the other cylinders to help that cylinder keep cool. This is a factory "fix" for the problems from having the early oil cooler restricting the cooling air flow to the left head and particularly, the #3 cylinder.

But having the distributor rotated so it's using the "wrong" post to fire the cylinders will NOT keep it from running or continuing to run.

The distributor and its drive shaft SHOULD be timed correctly for the engine to run it's best though.
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Dark Earth
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

dustymojave wrote:
I disagree. Sorta...

Some Bosch distributors DO care which post is used to fire cylinder #1. More accurately, they care which post is used to fire cylinder #3. In some distributors, such as the 009 and the SVDA, #3 is retarded slightly in comparison to the posts for the other cylinders to help that cylinder keep cool. This is a factory "fix" for the problems from having the early oil cooler restricting the cooling air flow to the left head and particularly, the #3 cylinder.

But having the distributor rotated so it's using the "wrong" post to fire the cylinders will NOT keep it from running or continuing to run.

The distributor and its drive shaft SHOULD be timed correctly for the engine to run it's best though.


Good info dustymojave !!
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Dark Earth
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

What I was calling "true TDC" is actually just TDC of the compression stroke. It's still where the #1 cylinder fires because the valves are closed, but TDC of the exhaust stroke is just as "true" except the #1 plug shouldn't fire here because the exhaust valve is open.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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MIBaja
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Hello all,

Very productive weekend for me. Lets start with the distributor.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here was my issue the rotor at TDC does not line up with the mark on distributor, and the condenser hits the fuel pump so it was unable to twist it more. I did check the valves and when the pulley was at TDC both the rockers on #1 cylinder were free. Here is a picture with the distributor removed. front of the car is to the right.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anyway I put new points and condenser on and was able to move the condenser enough to get my mark lined up. I tried starting still no luck. I thought ok the only thing I have not replaced were the plugs. I bought 4 new plugs and still nothing. I could not figure out what was going on.... then it clicked. I managed to mix up the plugs at some point so for a while now It was off with the firing order. Quick swap of the plugs and it started right up and runs like a champ. I drove it around the block, slowly as the brakes are less than awesome. I have reverse and 4 forward gears and everything seemed to be how I would like it. Generator light was off while driving as was the oil light so those are good signs.

I got it back home and decided to work on the brake lights. I have tried every configuration that I can think of. I believe this is how it should be hooked up.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


right wire (black) is spliced together and goes to a fuse.

Bottom wire (white) should go to the dash light then ground. I dont have the connector to hook up to the stock brake warning light, and I dont know if I really want it. I know when the brakes are not working do I really need a light to remind me of that? Is the light doing something like the generator light is? So i just have it going straight to the ground.

Left wire (brown) goes to a 3 to 2 wire adapter which goes to the brake lights. Since I am running LED lights. Here is what I have.

https://www.amazon.com/CURT-58240-Tail-Light-Converter/dp/B001EP0GI6

I tried to jump the black to brown to test if the switches were bad and nothing happened so I think there must be something with the wiring. Am I missing something with the led lights maybe?

I worked on that for a short period and decided it was time to move on.

I worked on the wiring for the windshield wipers. I got them to turn on and off so that is a plus. I do have a question about this. I would like to add a washer reservoir tank with a 12v pump on it so it is not running off of the spare tire air. Has anyone done this with the 1974 style switch? I found an article using the dash mounted switch, but could not find one for the stalk on the steering column. I might just use a push button but it would be nice to do the factory style switch. Also does anyone have a universal reservoir or VW specific one they recommend?

Last thing I did this weekend was reweld up the rear bumper.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks pretty good I think. I still need to put some type of cap on the ends and paint it but it is too cold right now to be painting.

Anyway thanks for the help, advise and support I couldnt of done it without all of you. I will get some work this week then will be out of town again next week. When i return I hope to get plates and insurance for it. (after the brakes are fixed) and take it for slightly longer drives.
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dustymojave
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Check eBay for washer reservoir and pump. There's quite a variety.

That distributor housing is off by about 90°. The advance housing should be at about 7:00.

The wave washer under the pinch bolt on the clamp needs to be removed with a magnet so it doesn't wind up inside the engine through the distributor shaft opening.

When I remove a distributor, I leave the clamp pinched on the shank and take the clamp off with the distributor.
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MIBaja
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Is there a way to turn it the 90 degrees so it is correct, or does that require a whole engine rebuild?

Thank you
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

MIBaja wrote:
Is there a way to turn it the 90 degrees so it is correct, or does that require a whole engine rebuild?

Thank you


You have 2 options:
1) Just rotate the plug wires 90 degrees and run it
2) pull the distributor and fuel pump, lift the drive up enough to disengage it from the drive gear on the crank, and re-install in the correct position
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Thank you. It is running right now so I am probably going to leave it for now, but down the road I think I will rotate by option 2.

I worked on the hazard switch wiring last night.. That didnt go so well. I followed this PDF.

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ovh_68-71_turn-hazard_wiring.pdf

Mine is slightly different but I think I figured out the differences. So wired it up without the dash indicator at first, because I was unsure where it went. Relay clicks as i would expect it to, ign on and turn signal on it clicks, ign off or on with hazard switch on, but no lights on the car in either situation. So after looking around found out that the dash indicator goes to 49a on the relay. So I added a wire at the 49a relay post to the dash indicator light, thinking it was something like the generator light. Now the relay clicks once when you turn on either switch and the lights just stay on. Not just the left or right when I use the turn signals, but both left and right turn on. Is this a possible sign of a bad hazard switch?

The turn signals worked before the hazard switch went into the system so I believe the switch or some part of the wiring is the culprit.

The other thing I am unsure of is my switch knob seems to fall apart. If you pull on the knob to turn it on, the round end falls off with the light bulb inside it. Was this glued on or something from the factory? Does that bulb need to work for the system to work properly? It didnt appear to turn on when I turned the hazard switch on so Im guessing the bulb is bad? I will be messing with it more tonight I may have a wire switched and just missed it.

Any thoughts on the brake light system?

Car is still running well I only drive it in and out of the garage and let it run for a short period of time to warm up a night but its nice to hear it running.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Re the distributor rotation, 1st just loosen the pinch bolt on the clamp, then rotate the body of the distributor to the correct orientation. Cylinder # 1 should be about 4:30 from standing behind the car. Then make sure the plug wires are in the correct holes in the cap.

Taint no big thang...

It IS possible that the drive is inserted wrong. IF that's the case, it still aint no big thang. There's a tool to pull the shaft out without tearing the whole engine apart. I don't like to use it because there are a couple of thin shim washers under that shaft that can and often will fall into the bottom of the case when the shaft is lifted to re-set it. Then it's a problem getting them out without tearing the engine apart.

STILL, the engine will run OK if the distributor is timed off by 90 or 180°.
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Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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Dark Earth
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

MIBaja wrote:
Any thoughts on the brake light system?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I would get a test light and check for voltage at fuse #1. Then check for voltage at "a" and "b". Unplug "c" and "d" then press the brake pedal down and check for voltage at "c" and "d". If voltage is present under these conditions your switches are powered and ready to power your brake lights. If no power is present at "c" or "d" when pushing the pedal down the switch is bad.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

MIBaja wrote:
I drove it around the block, slowly as the brakes are less than awesome.


Make sure your pedal isn't spongy or goes to the floor before testing the brake light switches. Test your brake light switches with a properly bled brake system with properly adjusted brake shoes.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Ok I spent alot of time staring at the wiring yesterday. Some good things came out of it, many questions came out.

First of all I Figured out why I didnt have brake lights. The wiring diagram calls out brake switch goes to fuse 11, but I missed that there is also power that is gotten from fuse 1. After hooking up a wire to fuse 1 I now have brake lights... when the tail lights are off. When the tail lights are on the brake lights don't get brighter, Im guessing I have a switched wire somewhere.

A few questions. I have played with the turn signals and I can get some combination of lights to turn on, but they stay solid, dont flash, even though the relay is clicking. I think Im probably missing a wire. I added the power from fuse 1 which I was missing. On the wiring diagram the headlight switch at track 15 calls a wire from 58b to track 43 58b on the hazard switch. Is this wire supposed to be there? All the wiring things i find for the hazard switch shows 58b on the hazard as empty? Another question on the diagram there are 0.5 and 1.5 and 1.0 numbers in the wire lines, what are they?? do they mean something or just to help track wires maybe?

The previous owner bought a Grant steering wheel install kit, but there was no horn button. I modeled one up in CAD and am going to print one we will see how it turns out.

I will be working on it some more today, and hopefully I can make a little more progress on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

MIBaja wrote:
A few questions. I have played with the turn signals and I can get some combination of lights to turn on, but they stay solid, dont flash, even though the relay is clicking.


Do you have one of these ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


from this link ...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=547925&start=0
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Baja Build **pic heavy** Reply with quote

Hello all,
Second time I am writing this as I don’t learn that it times out…
Wiring is very frustrating to me.. I will start with the good thing. I got my horn button printed, I hooked it up and didn’t work. So I took off the steering wheel and removed the switch. Here is the switch as I removed it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I cleaned it up, and besides the giant hole in the horn contact ring it cleaned up pretty well. I went to a few different stores, and no one had thin copper sheet to repair the hole so I will have to order some online to fix it. I bent the contact slightly to make a good connection with the wheel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Reassembled the switch and wired it up and it worked!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I really like the look of it, even though I still have to paint it. I think I will like it even better when I get it painted. If anyone has a 3d printer that wants the STL file I can share it, however I am unsure how to best do that through this site. It might be best if I put it on thingiverse and share the link here.

Now the fun part.. I have gone through the wiring multiple times redone parts of it and still cannot figure it out. So I have done some work on the diagrams and removed items that I don’t have installed or plan to install. I have all of the wires installed except the purple wire ( backup light) which should not affect functionality of the rest of the system. Here is the whole diagram
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And a few of the zoomed up areas that are problematic.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The Second one causes me some issues. If I connect the front parking lights to fuse 1 it closes the loop and when the turn signal switch turns on all 4 lights turn on. If I remove the wire from the lights to the fuses the turn signal turns the correct side of the car on. Im guessing the issue with it is because my led turn signal lights/parking lights are 2 wire. 1 red 1 white. Did the stock lights have 3 wires one for turn signal, one for parking light, and one for ground?
So I have left those power wires to front turn signals off.
Here is a drawing that I have created to display my wiring as best I can.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Key:
1: tail light converter
https://www.amazon.com/CURT-58240-Tail-Light-Conve...+converter
I have used this one in my vibe for trailer wiring and it worked. I realize this is slightly different, but should work in my mind.
2,3: rear tail light, turn signal, stop signs- they are 3 wire black red and white. One for tail, one for stop and turn, white is ground.
4: hazard switch
5 fuses- im only using s1,s2,s8 and s12 for this wiring
6. LED flasher relay.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NOERPW0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
7. speedo
8,9. front turn signal
10. brake switch simplified
11. turn signal switch on the steering column

I bought a test light to help with this issue.
Here is what is happening with the wiring. When you turn the turn signal switch on the correct side of the car lights turn on solid. The relay flasher does not click. When you use the test light on the flasher relay the + is nice and bright. When you test the L the Flasher relay starts to click on and off, but the lights go out and don’t flash, just stay off. Relay keeps clicking as long as the test light is touching the L on the relay. When you take the light off L the clicking stops and the lights come back on solid.
I tested the hazard switch wiring here are the results:
+: light is bright
15: light is bright with IGN on
30: light is bright with IGN on or off
49a: starts the relay clicking shuts off lights
R: light on but not as bright as 15,30 or + when turn signal switch is set to right
L: same as R but when turn signal set to L
Brake light wiring: lights work when headlights are not on, when head lights are on tail lights are as bright as the brake lights so they could be working but you can’t tell.
58b: empty I tried running a wire to 58b on the headlight switch but that didnt do anything so I left it out.

Should the L and R output with the test light be as bright as the 15 or 30 going in?
So Im happy with how it is wired, it seems everything is correct but still does not work.

There are a few things that could be wrong
1: wrong flasher relay?
2: wrong tail light converter? Do I need one like this
https://www.amazon.com/Reese-Towpower-78013-Light-...ter+5+wire
3: hazard switch is bad?
4: turn signal switch is bad?

I would rather not just do the guess and check method, so if there are any thoughts or any thoughts on how to test things that might be bad or a wiring issue you see let me know. Im running out of ideas, I don’t want to go back to stock tail lights (which I have) but Im running out of ideas and maybe it’s the way I should go.

Thank you for your help hopefully someone will have some insight.

I will be leaving for out of country on Tuesday So probably will not get much done before that. Hopefully someone will have some insight on what is going on for when I return that I can test. To figure out the issue.
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