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YAKGRP: late '69 coupe
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Joostt wrote:
Quote:
wow the Ghia looked great until you started digging around...

It did.. And I'm afraid it's going to look a lot worse before getting better. But that's part of the deal with this car. Good thing I have those photo's to look at once in a while to help me remember what the car looked like/is going to look like :D

Quote:
You post these before and after photos that make it seem like you completed them during a commercial break, but I know there was a lot of thinking, time and sweat put into each part.

Indeed. For anyone who's is going to restore a ghia, expect to put a lot of time in thinking, reading, doing, redoing different steps in the process. And maybe shed a little tear once in a while :wink: .
And thank you J1 for already making me worry a lot less about the rocker panels with your thread (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598829&highlight=).


Joost, I have good news and bad news for you. I went through much the same processes as you, progressively finding more and more damage and more and more things to replace or repair. The bad news is, as someone else has posted, that it gets worse before it gets better. BUT, the good news is that you end up with a car you have literally rebuilt from the ground up, and where you have touched every nut and bolt. And that gives a sense of satisfaction surpassed, in my case in any event, only by the birth of a child.

PS I was in Vlissingen last month and should have come around to say hello and look at you car.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Quote:
Joost, I have good news and bad news for you.

Thanks for the support. I had a lot of fun reading your thread about Emiko (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578994). My restoration will be a little less rigorous compared to yours. But nevertheless a lot of work to come.

Quote:
PS I was in Vlissingen last month and should have come around to say hello and look at you car.

And you came from the other side of the world and were nextdoor and didn't visit me.. Wink Would have been an honor to meet you.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

I should have come around to visit you, Joost. I drove past Noordwijk 3 times last month. I have a soft spot for Leiden - just around the corner from you. I was a research student there and my wife and I have fond memories of the Lakenfees.

As an aside, I had my grandmother's Dutch Bible in my hands earlier today. I am just one genereation away from being a Hollander.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:
I have a soft spot for Leiden - just around the corner from you.

It seems like it wasn't the last time you visited Holland, so next time come and visit me Exclamation

This week I switched to te left rear side of the car. First of all a lot of manual labor removing loads of undercoating by hand with a chisel Neutral . I'm quite optimistic about the left side. The rear chassis support has only one patch and seems good enough to fix instead of replacing it. The inner wheel housing has little rust, only a small spot on the top were a small patch should do.
On the other hand the panel behind the wheel and the rear bumper support are gone and patched in the same fashion as on the right side.

I ordered the rear fender and bumper support repair panels. So let's see if I learned something on the right side and can do the same trick left a little faster Smile .

Rear chassis support
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Patch spot in the picture above from the inside
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Rear bumper support (or what's left..)
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Pictures from the inside of the rear fender behind the wheel/rear bumper support
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And outside. You can see the streak of bubbles from the little blank spot to halfway the tail light which represents welds from previous patching
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Yesterday I removed a lot of bondo from the left rear fender with an angle grinder and a clean & strip disk. Makes a lot of dust, but is very effective. You do have to clean your entire garage afterwards though. Took me about an hour to get rid of all the bondo. I stopped removing paint when the bondo layers became thin.
The streak of bubbles in the previous post turned out to be superficial rust. The welds from the patch are just beneath it as visible in the pictures below.

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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

You're doing very thorough work, Joost!

In this photo, please realize that the vertical seam in the rear apron is supposed to be visible on original/correctly restored Ghias. The right side seam was covered with filler. Also, note there is a small hole to the right of the seam, about 1/3 down from the top edge. That would be the stock location for the M6 bolt that holds the support bar of the "export bumpers".

In one of your original photos you can see that the rear bumper has two unused holes in the top surface of the outer blade sections. Those holes would be for the outer "towel bars" which are found on US-spec bumpers. If your car had those export bumpers originally, the body would've had a long "C" shaped brace that went from that hole in the apron upwards to the underside of the engine compartment rear panel. The support tube that mounts to the rear apron goes to the top of the longer vertical overriders of the US bumpers.

If you decide to keep your current bumper in the "Euro" style and not retrofit the towel bars and the taller overriders, then you don't need the two M6 holes in the rear apron.
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This is how a US/export rear bumper looks like. Note that this Ghia has US-style "rectangular" reflectors below the taillights, whereas your Ghia has the smaller, round reflectors for Euro markets.
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Here you can see how that support tube fits between the apron and the right overrider.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Thanks for pointing out the use of those small holes in the apron. I was already wondering why they were there. I think my ghia originally had the euro style bumpers and that at some point in time the outer blades of the rear bumper were replaced. No C shaped brace behind the small hole. Just a nut welded behind the hole and in the hole a little plastic clip to fill it up.
The front bumper doesn't have the holes for towel bars. It does have two extra lights mounted to it, but the place they are mounted seems to be too close to the overriders to suspect these holes were actually for the towel bars.
So I want to keep the euro style bumpers. However filling up the holes with a weld wasn't done in the factory either, so I guess a will keep em just as they are.
The vertical seems in the apron are both visible now.

I found a piece of insulation in the rear as seen in the picture below. Is this factory sound proofing or did someone put it in there afterwards for unknown reasons?

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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

That's a factory installed piece of sound deadening. My '68 had them also.

brad
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Quote:

That's a factory installed piece of sound deadening. My '68 had them also.

Thanks. Soundproofing is one of the things I still have to dig into.

A little progress today. I removed the rusted left rear quarter panel and the bumper support to make room for rapair panels.
First removed the patch on the inside of the wheel housing (patch already removed in this pic).
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Then trial fitted the repair panel and outlined it. I did cut out a small part on the rear side to clear the original hole for the euro style reflector.
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Removed the quarter panel with an angle grinder.
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And removed the bumper support as well.
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I have some cleaning up to do, mostly rust removal. After that it's time to weld in the repair panels.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Quote:
No C shaped brace behind the small hole.

You can see it in the center of this photo; it's angled upwards to the left.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Ah. That brace.. I reckoned that a C shaped brace would be actually C shaped Smile. Here it is in more detail (picture below).
These braces, however, won't tell me whether it was fitted with a euro style bumper or us bumper. Both would have these braces, right?


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Jsg
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Just my 2 cents..... I recently completed a frame off restoration of a '74 vert. This was my first resto and this website was priceless. I can"t recommend strongly enough to take the body off! It is really quite simple and you have already removed the engine which makes it even easier. So many repair/resto chores will be easier. Especially replacing brake lines and finding even more rust that can now be repaired properly. I even had the body repainted off the frame which helped with a great quality paint job. I also was pressed for room but there are several threads on building a wooden dolly to hold the body and allow the chassis to roll and be stored underneath. Dolly built in one evening with one six pack of beer. Remounting the body on the chassis was straight forward and seeing your work so far I feel sure you will have it all back together in a timely fashion. Regardless of your approach, I hope you enjoy your project!

Jon
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Quote:
These braces, however, won't tell me whether it was fitted with a euro style bumper or us bumper. Both would have these braces, right?

Joost, I "think" the Euro cars also had this brace, but we hardly ever see one here in the USA so I'm definitely not certain. Then again, if the car was not equipped with the "export" bumpers with the upper towel rail and the taller overriders, there may not have been a need for this brace.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Quote:
oost, I "think" the Euro cars also had this brace, but we hardly ever see one here in the USA so I'm definitely not certain. Then again, if the car was not equipped with the "export" bumpers with the upper towel rail and the taller overriders, there may not have been a need for this brace.


Just a guess, but I think all ghias have the brace. Euro cars just wouldnt have need for the nut for the supports.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

A little progress today. After removing (most of) the paint from the repair panels with paint stripper I welded the rear bumper support and rear quarter panel. I left the patch on the rear quarter panel in place, because the metal was good. With exception of some rusted through metal near the tail light where I replaced a small triangle.

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Joostt
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

I removed the left springplate. I ended up removing the springplate and torsion bar as a whole. I couldn't get the two seperated and figured that removing the torsion bar from the springplate would be easier once removed. I did cut away a part of the rear fender with an angle grinder to make this possible, it had to be replaced anyway.

Seperating these two however turned out to be one of the more challenging jobs and I haven't succeeded thus far. I tried the following:
- using lots of penetrating oil on both sides and left is to soak for days
- heating up the spring plate with a torch multipel time, also after leaving it outside while freezing
- using candle wax on both sides while heating up the spring plate
- hammering on the torsion bar with a chisel
- these things combined

The springplate has quite a bit of rust. I'm out of options and thinking about cutting the springplate in two with an angle grinder to free the torsion bar and order two new springplates.

Any last hints or tricks te seperate the springplate and torsion bar are welcome Idea


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

soak it in a 50%/50% mix of acetone and ATF. Let it sit. Work on something else and come back to it in a week or so.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Just fill the hole in the rear bumper blades with a chrome bolt so it looks stock.

One of the days I'll have to stop by as I am in Bussum, NL every year to visit family and we come out to Delft or Leiden too.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

I had to use a shop press for mine, came free with a rusty Pop! Barring that, you might be able to gear up something with a jack.
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Joostt
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: YAKGRP: late '69 coupe Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips. I'll try the soaking in 50/50 acetone and ATF. And if it doesn't work out find a shop press. On youtube there are lots of ideas for a DIY hydraulic press with a jack. So maybe i'll try that if I have some spare time.

Quote:
One of the days I'll have to stop by as I am in Bussum, NL every year to visit family and we come out to Delft or Leiden too.

Let me know if you are around. I live close to Leiden.
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