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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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I'd lower your oil to 10-30. I run it in all my VW's here in hot as heck Phoenix. It lowered my oil temps 15* when I dropped from 10-40. Now, all my engines have less than 10k miles on them as well, so they have tight bearing tolerances and excellent oil pressure.
Take some pictures of you engine and engine compartment and post them. I can't tell what engine lid you're running? Is it solid? If so, that's contributing to your oil temps as well. My bone stock 67 engine didn't like the Phoenix heat w/it's solid (no air vents) original engine lid. So I installed a 67 convertible engine lid w/the vents and it also lowered the oil temperature down as well.
Timing is a big oil temperature factor. Take a picture of your pulley as well and explain in more detail how your setting it. That distributor (like all new ones sold today) would be better used as a door stop. The quality is terrible and there's multiple threads on here each day w/folks struggling with them.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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If you want, While i'm in the Dallas area on July 9th & 10th I can swing by and teach you how to time your motor, and adjust your carb.
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(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
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1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31378
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| My bone stock 67 engine didn't like the Phoenix heat w/it's solid (no air vents) original engine lid. So I installed a 67 convertible engine lid w/the vents and it also lowered the oil temperature down as well. |
Adding an engine lid with vents was a great idea even if your 1967 still had 1500cc engine in it.
But they just don't give away '67 convertible engine lids either !!! Or are those 67 VWs compatible with later engine lids like '68-69 convertibles and later sedan lids?
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Gravell
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
| Gravell wrote: |
2. I am running 20w-50 Castrol GTX oil at the advice of the vw-resource website. |
That is your issue.
Switch to 5W-30 in the winter time, and a 5W-40 in the HOT Texas summer.
You are By-passing your oil cooler due to the thick oil, and overheating.
I will be in Dallas on July 10th for the VW Dub Splash show if you want me to inspect your bug (I will find EVERYTHING wrong with it)
Some people don't like what I find...
Anyways, lemme know.
Try a lighter oil. |
As expected Mr. Duncan you were correct. I switched to 10w-30 this morning and drove the same 12 mile route as I did yesterday with 20w-50 oil. Half highway half city and the temperature warning light never even began to flicker. I even tacked on 8 more city miles and ran the motor for 30 miles total drive time. Thank you very much for your help and explanations. |
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Gravell wrote: |
| Mr.Duncan wrote: |
| Gravell wrote: |
2. I am running 20w-50 Castrol GTX oil at the advice of the vw-resource website. |
That is your issue.
Switch to 5W-30 in the winter time, and a 5W-40 in the HOT Texas summer.
You are By-passing your oil cooler due to the thick oil, and overheating.
I will be in Dallas on July 10th for the VW Dub Splash show if you want me to inspect your bug (I will find EVERYTHING wrong with it)
Some people don't like what I find...
Anyways, lemme know.
Try a lighter oil. |
As expected Mr. Duncan you were correct. I switched to 10w-30 this morning and drove the same 12 mile route as I did yesterday with 20w-50 oil. Half highway half city and the temperature warning light never even began to flicker. I even tacked on 8 more city miles and ran the motor for 30 miles total drive time. Thank you very much for your help and explanations. |
Awesome! Glad I could help.
If you swing by the VW show in July 10th, see me at my Vendor Booth Vintagecarleds.
_________________
(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| My bone stock 67 engine didn't like the Phoenix heat w/it's solid (no air vents) original engine lid. So I installed a 67 convertible engine lid w/the vents and it also lowered the oil temperature down as well. |
Adding an engine lid with vents was a great idea even if your 1967 still had 1500cc engine in it.
But they just don't give away '67 convertible engine lids either !!! Or are those 67 VWs compatible with later engine lids like '68-69 convertibles and later sedan lids? |
No, sadly the 67 convertible engine lids are rare and I had to pay a lot for it a few years ago. 
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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I'm not sure I understand what kind of temperature sensor you have and how it works, But it may be set a little too low, you should be able to slow down a little and the engine oil temp should come down.
I was worried about our bus engine because last weekend we went up to Portland on the interstate and the temps were near 100 Degrees and I am running 5W30 Castrol oil because it's usually in the 60's here on the Oregon coast. I was pushing it pretty hard on the I-5 as I did not want to miss the start of the VW Show Drag Races so for the last 60 miles there, I was running a good 75 MPH. When we arrived I felt the engine and it was not overheated. But I would say it was around 212' F or so if I had to guess. It has the full flow oil filtering though which with the oil lines routed away from the heat to a big oil filter drops the return oil temp considerably all on it's own.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Gravell
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
I'm not sure I understand what kind of temperature sensor you have and how it works, But it may be set a little too low, you should be able to slow down a little and the engine oil temp should come down.
I was worried about our bus engine because last weekend we went up to Portland on the interstate and the temps were near 100 Degrees and I am running 5W30 Castrol oil because it's usually in the 60's here on the Oregon coast. I was pushing it pretty hard on the I-5 as I did not want to miss the start of the VW Show Drag Races so for the last 60 miles there, I was running a good 75 MPH. When we arrived I felt the engine and it was not overheated. But I would say it was around 212' F or so if I had to guess. It has the full flow oil filtering though which with the oil lines routed away from the heat to a big oil filter drops the return oil temp considerably all on it's own. |
http://savemybug.com
I have the oil temperature dip stick from that website. It hooks up to the oil pressure sensor. It begins to flicker when the oil hits 225 degrees and turns solid red when the oil hits 235. I was able to slow down and have the light turn off. I have had it for months and it has never come on until I switched to 20w-50. |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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Well it's a pretty neat device the problem with it is that it uses your Oil Light to indicate over temp. I would be worried that I had lost oil pressure every time it came on. Perhaps tie it to the horn?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Gravell wrote: |
I have a Pertronix D186504 Flame-Thrower SVDA distributor.
Idle timing is 5 degrees at 1000 RPMs.
I don't know Total Advance timing.
I have a stock pulley with one notch on the inside rim (5 degrees ATDC) and a dimple (TDC) on the outer rim, right of the notch. |
When you say you timed it to 5deg... does that mean 5BTDC or are you using the 5ATDC notch on the crank pulley to set your timing??? If so, your timing is probably 12deg too retarded. This would cause your engine to run HOT!
Did your distributor come w/ instructions on proper timing? 5ATDC was probably the correct timing for the original distributor that came with the engine/pulley, but it is not the correct timing for that new distributor.
The idle timing for your Pertronix should be closer to 7.5BTDC.
Do two things...
Make a mark at 7.5BTDC on the FRONT lip of the crank pulley. This should be about 11.6mm clockwise from the TDC "dimple". While you are there, make a mark for 30BTDC as well.
Set your idle timing to the 7.5BTDC mark with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged. You may need to readjust the idle speed to keep it in the 800-950rpm range so the mechanical is not active.
Next, check that your Total advance does not exceed 28-32BTDC. This is done with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged so you are only checking the initial + mechanical timing. Rev the engine until the timing stops advancing. When the mechanical timing is all in, the 30BTDC mark should be close to the case split. You want to make sure the Total timing does not exceed 32BTDC. More than this and you risk detonation at high rpms under load. If the Total advance is greater than 32BTDC, adjust the distributor to bring it back into a safe range (28-32BTDC).
Give this a try and see if it improves your overheating problem. If you were actually timing the ignition 12deg too retarded I would expect the engine to run HOT.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31378
Location: Hot Arizona
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Gravell
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| Gravell wrote: |
I have a Pertronix D186504 Flame-Thrower SVDA distributor.
Idle timing is 5 degrees at 1000 RPMs.
I don't know Total Advance timing.
I have a stock pulley with one notch on the inside rim (5 degrees ATDC) and a dimple (TDC) on the outer rim, right of the notch. |
When you say you timed it to 5deg... does that mean 5BTDC or are you using the 5ATDC notch on the crank pulley to set your timing??? If so, your timing is probably 12deg too retarded. This would cause your engine to run HOT!
Did your distributor come w/ instructions on proper timing? 5ATDC was probably the correct timing for the original distributor that came with the engine/pulley, but it is not the correct timing for that new distributor.
The idle timing for your Pertronix should be closer to 7.5BTDC.
Do two things...
Make a mark at 7.5BTDC on the FRONT lip of the crank pulley. This should be about 11.6mm clockwise from the TDC "dimple". While you are there, make a mark for 30BTDC as well.
Set your idle timing to the 7.5BTDC mark with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged. You may need to readjust the idle speed to keep it in the 800-950rpm range so the mechanical is not active.
Next, check that your Total advance does not exceed 28-32BTDC. This is done with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged so you are only checking the initial + mechanical timing. Rev the engine until the timing stops advancing. When the mechanical timing is all in, the 30BTDC mark should be close to the case split. You want to make sure the Total timing does not exceed 32BTDC. More than this and you risk detonation at high rpms under load. If the Total advance is greater than 32BTDC, adjust the distributor to bring it back into a safe range (28-32BTDC).
Give this a try and see if it improves your overheating problem. If you were actually timing the ignition 12deg too retarded I would expect the engine to run HOT. |
Hey Ashman,
After switching out the oil from 20w-50 to 10w-30 I have not had any overheating issues over the past 2 days. What you are saying about the timing makes complete sense, but I would of never thought about the distributor being the issue and I did not know that timing varied based on the distributor. I have the pulley that is in the picture so I will try resetting the timing to 7.5 BTDC and see what the results are. Now that I think about it I did not have backfire issues at decelerator or idle until I switched out this distributor. I have the original stock one and it worked perfectly fine. I was just in the process of going through the ignition system and thought why not switch to a distributor without points. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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Using the wrong oil could affect the running engine temp, but setting the timing wrong has a much more dramatic effect. Most people know that too much timing advance creates higher engine temps, but when you retard the timing way too much you loose power and also get higher temps.
If you correct your timing to 7.5BTDC I think you will find you engine is much more responsive and feels like it has more power. 12deg of timing advance makes a noticeable different in engine power.
I doubt you have the pulley in the pic. VW never made a pulley with all four marks. That pulley was modified. There are pulleys with three notches, but the left most notch would be TDC and they do not have the TDC dimple. If your pulley has the TDC dimple and one notch, it is likely the 5ATDC notch.
You must also confirm that your Total advance does not exceed 32BTDC. This is the default way to time a distributor when you are not certain of the quality or the timing; or do not have a maker recommended idle timing value.
Stock VW distributors in good shape can be timed at idle because the advance is predictable. Aftermarket clones of 009 or other distributors (like your SVDA) are less predictable. A stock engine should never need more than 32BTDC of total rpm-based (mechanical) timing advance. Even race engines limit it to around 35BTDC or risk detonation that would destroy the engine.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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Backfire on decel indicates mixture is either too rich or you have an exhaust leak. 130 on a main jet seems a little too much for a bug at sea level, you could probably dial it down to 127.
you'd need to get an exhaust gas analyzer or wideband o2 to know for sure.
good call on the oil, that was also my first thought when you said you had 20W50 in there.. 50 weight is very thick.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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Gravell
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
Using the wrong oil could affect the running engine temp, but setting the timing wrong has a much more dramatic effect. Most people know that too much timing advance creates higher engine temps, but when you retard the timing way too much you loose power and also get higher temps.
If you correct your timing to 7.5BTDC I think you will find you engine is much more responsive and feels like it has more power. 12deg of timing advance makes a noticeable different in engine power.
I doubt you have the pulley in the pic. VW never made a pulley with all four marks. That pulley was modified. There are pulleys with three notches, but the left most notch would be TDC and they do not have the TDC dimple. If your pulley has the TDC dimple and one notch, it is likely the 5ATDC notch.
You must also confirm that your Total advance does not exceed 32BTDC. This is the default way to time a distributor when you are not certain of the quality or the timing; or do not have a maker recommended idle timing value.
Stock VW distributors in good shape can be timed at idle because the advance is predictable. Aftermarket clones of 009 or other distributors (like your SVDA) are less predictable. A stock engine should never need more than 32BTDC of total rpm-based (mechanical) timing advance. Even race engines limit it to around 35BTDC or risk detonation that would destroy the engine. |
Hey Ashman,
I changed the timing like you said. I did 7.5* BTCD and my Total Advance was at 30* BTCD. Its like I am driving with a different motor now. All of my backfire is gone and the motor has a noticeable amount of more power and my engine temp is lower than it has ever been. Thank you for catching my distributor timing being off and walking me through how to set it correctly. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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I'm glad you got it running well. 
Now get out there and get some summer driving done! 
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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helowrench
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 567
Location: dallas texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
| Danwvw wrote: |
| Well it's a pretty neat device the problem with it is that it uses your Oil Light to indicate over temp. I would be worried that I had lost oil pressure every time it came on. Perhaps tie it to the horn? |
I wish they made one that hooked up to a regular VDO gauge... or just rig it to an additional oil warning light, like you would a shift light... |
They do.
http://www.justkampers.com/search/result/?q=oil+temperature+sender%2C+dipstick
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70 bug vert for wifey
73Thing bucket o rust
73 914 1.7
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TheRustySuper
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: New Albany, IN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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Just wanted to post and thank y'all for the brief discussion on oil weights--I was trying to decide what weight oil to use in my '72 Super (1600dp) this summer and I'm thinking Valvoline VR1 10w30. My engine has over 200k original miles and as far as I know has never had the case split. I've considered running 10w40 because it looks like most of this summer is gonna be 90+ degrees but I've never had the engine get hotter than 215 or so running 10w30, even running a steady 70-75 on the highway on a 95 degree day.
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Mr.Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 3542
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Overheating issues in Texas |
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| TheRustySuper wrote: |
My engine has over 200k original miles and as far as I know has never had the case split.
even running a steady 70-75 on the highway on a 95 degree day. |
Wait what. Pics. I wanna see.
_________________
(Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
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