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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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I am trying to use an old Race Trim intake manifold but it is missing the "Heat Riser Tubes" I have several old stock dual port intake manifolds. Has anyone had any luck removing the heat riser tubes and using them again on a aftermarket progressive style intake manifold? Would I just cut them out or what?
Type 1
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Heat? Might help ya. But I don't think the stock risers are going to fit that progressive manifold. They look a little short. IIRC I have seem longer risers at my local VW parts house.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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I am wondering if the tubes just keep going inside the stock manifold maybe I can just cut the thing open and get them out? _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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That would be plan "B" for me. Those manifolds are not that rare. So why not!
Good Luck _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Yeah, I think I will just cut one open and see if the tube is longer in it? _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Well here it is. They keep going but are shaped to fit the intake. This one is rusted out.
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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The hole for the heat riser tube in the RaceTrim manifold is .622" and the stock riser tube is .793"! _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Ask [email protected] if he sells the heat risers separately from the kit listed below. Also if they are the correct size for your application. The ones in the kit look like the ones that I have seen at Discount Auto Parts in Beaverton, Or.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Deluxe-Center-Mount-Intake-Manifold-Kit-Weber-DFEV-p/99004.410b.htm
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Danwvw wrote: |
So I wonder do those aftermarket tubes just press fit? How do they seal the exhaust fumes from leaking?
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the last one i had they were too tight to push in out of the box. on the advice of a buggy guy i decided to stick the manifold in the oven to bring it up to around 250, and tap 'em in. peen/stake them in place after. probably a good idea to file a chamfer on the edges to get them to slide in easier, or sand a taper onto them and put them in with loctite cold if they fit easy.
(I'm jealous btw, I'd love a zenith )
Side story about progressives, although a little off topic but a bit related for non-vw carbs in general for anybody interested-
I had a real weber progressive on my 71 super for a while, and went to a 34PICT3 and a stock oil bath, and after that it was much more driveable and had better power, so take that for what you will. but with a different distributor for a better advance curve they might work better, mine didn't have any vac ports and was used with an 009, whereas the 34PICT i replaced it with was also paired up with an SVDA that matched the flange number on the carb. rig up some sort of warm-air intake (easier on a bus, just adapt the stock air cleaner pipe to the new carb) and jet it right and it might work ~ok enough. they still are a bit funky but can be made liveable if you jet them the way Aircooled.net walks you through.
They aren't bad of a carb though, but i wouldn't try to do it again. I'd rather a single 34PICT3 or a zenith for the trouble. _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Personally, I have only known one person who has used a Weber progressive on his VW. His exact words were, "It's a piece of shit." _________________ "Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
mark tucker wrote: |
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Thanks "Lingwendil" great info. I have sent a couple of e-mails to find out about aftermarket riser tube fit and size. This whole thing is just an experiment to see if I can make this W-100 cam engine idle right which it won't do with the PICT-34. I figure that with the two 25mm dia throttles together in the RaceTrim plenum manifold it should have twice the throttle of the single 26mm solex throttle in the PICT 34 carburetor that was on it. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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I have a single port all exposed manifold with 15.88 mm tubes held on with 2 spot welds- If all else fails- e-mail me. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Thanks, you mean to cut them off of yours? This engine is a dual port. By the way got it running without the heat riser tubes today but yeah, I definitely want to get heat on the Zenith. It chills down the aluminum RaceTrim manifold pretty good but no icing. Here is a video: Zenith First Test I have a lot of questions about this kind of set up and need to find the answers and will post them on my engine's thread Stock-ish 1679cc engine 2016.
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Danwvw wrote: |
Thanks, you mean to cut them off of yours? This engine is a dual port. By the way got it running without the heat riser tubes today but yeah, I definitely want to get heat on the Zenith. It chills down the aluminum RaceTrim manifold pretty good but no icing. Here is a video: Zenith First Test I have a lot of questions about this kind of set up and need to find the answers and will post them on my engine's thread Stock-ish 1679cc engine 2016.
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Cool. maybe try bending up some brakeline from Napa auto parts or similar place, and welding flanges on the end? might be a pain in the ass but would probably work well if you get it sized correctly to fit well.
Do you still have the stock aircleaner for your bus? rig up the intake air preheat hose to be on 24/7 and i bet it would work just fine. just adapt the carb connecting pipe to fit. or make an airbox around the airfilter you end up running on the zenith and run the hose straight to there or something.
SBD wrote: |
Personally, I have only known one person who has used a Weber progressive on his VW. His exact words were, "It's a piece of shit." |
I only used it 'cuz i had it, and didn't know better as i was new to VW and cars in general. after doing the research and tweaking it i figured out why stock is best
All the buggy and off-road guys love the damn things though. I have had a couple experiences testing out a manx and a couple cars that had them installed, and on one of the cars in particular i have a funny story.
ran into a 69 Baja a mutual friend was showing off, and offered me a chance to test drive it. car had a "brand new" 1600 sporting a chrome 009 and a progressive, supposedly "built and dyno tuned by Bugformance in sacramento". while i was testing it out with the owner in the passenger seat, the guy commented "feel that power? that's a real weber son" and I had him hop in the car i rolled up in (my 61 baja with the 1600SP, CB cheater cam, H30/31, 205K dizzy, and oil bath air cleaner with all the preheat hoses and thermostat properly functioning) for a test drive. he didn't believe me that i told him his car would run better with a stock setup until i let him drive it. he hopped in, tore ass around the block a few times, and was not too pleased with the progressive after that to say the least _________________ 73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Lingwendil wrote: |
ran into a 69 Baja a mutual friend was showing off, and offered me a chance to test drive it. car had a "brand new" 1600 sporting a chrome 009 and a progressive, supposedly "built and dyno tuned by Bugformance in sacramento". while i was testing it out with the owner in the passenger seat, the guy commented "feel that power? that's a real weber son" and I had him hop in the car i rolled up in (my 61 baja with the 1600SP, CB cheater cam, H30/31, 205K dizzy, and oil bath air cleaner with all the preheat hoses and thermostat properly functioning) for a test drive. he didn't believe me that i told him his car would run better with a stock setup until i let him drive it. he hopped in, tore ass around the block a few times, and was not too pleased with the progressive after that to say the least |
_________________ "Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
mark tucker wrote: |
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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For comparison using my 1679cc engine I put the (Solex PICT 34) followed by a clip of the (Zenith NDIX 32 P010) & RaceTrim Aluminum manifold Into this video. There was a couple of days work involved with changing carbs and manifolds before this 28 second video could be edited together.
PICT 34 vs Zenith _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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[quote="Danwvw"]Thanks, you mean to cut them off of yours?
Sure- or you can have the whole thing- got no use for a single port manifold with that carb on it.
---Cutting today- but waiting for another address on roof gutters so I can make one trip-- _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any!
Last edited by williamM on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fitting Heat Riser Tubes |
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Here is some temperature data collected during the first 5 minutes of operation no load @ 3000 RPM. With intake air pre-heat on full but no heat risers present yet. The coolest point on the RaceTrim intake manifold was just below the RaceTrim name dead center on the manifold.
Ambient Temperature F:----------------------------------------------------- 71.4'
Coolest Temp happened about a minute or so into the 5 minute run:----- 54' F
After 5 minutes the top of the carb was:----------------------------------127' F and increasing
After 5 minutes the coolest point on the RaceTrim manifold was:---------67' F and steady.
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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