Stainless steel coolant pipes install report…not perfection

[piruvan]

I just installed the Van Cafe ss coolant pipes on my '89 2.1 2wd 4-speed. It was not as easy and straight forward as many posts indicate. About 10 hours work. I dropped the gas tank rear about 2-3 inches but that still doesn't give enough room to fit your hands up in there. The VC pipes didn't come with instructions. The easiest part was getting the old plastic pipes out. They slid out intact. I set the ss pipes next to them to match the bends before installing the passenger side front piece. After it went in I had to slide it 3 inches farther forward then it should be to fit the drivers side front piece next to it. Now things are really tight above the gas tank. I oriented both pieces as best I could but could not not pull the passenger pipe back 3 inches without a bend in it hitting the floorpan or some ridge under there I couldn't see. And routing the heater hoses above or below the pipes (not sure which is correct…instructions would have helped) is damn near impossible in that cramped space. In the end it all hooked up but the passenger side pipes have a 2 inch gap inside the rubber hose that connects the fore and aft. They two pipes should almost touch inside that sleeve (they do in the drivers side pipe) No leaks though. And my shifter is now got less neutral wiggle and some resistance moving into 1st or 2nd. I think the rod is pushing into one of the heater hoses above the tank. It feels more "rubbery" than metal on metal. Anyhow, dropping the gas tank entirely would have made for a better install. At least you can see how to route everything and have room to work. Why did VW cram so much into such a small space above the tank? There seems to be plenty of room from the center of the tank…left toward the driver's side. The ss pipes are nice, though.
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'89 Vanagon GL "Whitestar" Wolfsburg edition. 4-speed, 2.1L
'06 Accord EX-L 5-speed

[eeebee]

It's a PITA
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Eric

1987 Vanagon Wolfsburg Special Edition
GoWesty 2.3

Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.

[90Doka_Guy]

While I agree, dropping the tank would be easiest, I found it wasn't too bad if the passenger side pipe was installed first and the drivers side pipe installed second. I installed the pipes twice because I was not happy with how I initially had the heater hoses routed (both were under the pipes) I'm not sure how they were originally routed since I had a pipe replaced years ago but I settled on the routing in the below picture. It was a but of a puzzle getting them in, I spent about 20min getting them in the first time, the second time after thinking about it for a bit they went in without a fight. It was one of the dirtier jobs that I have done on the van and I severely underestimated the number of buckets that I needed.

Not sure if my heater hoses are original or not either, but I had plenty of slack to pull them somewhat tight so that they were not rubbing on the linkage. I would give linkage adjustment a try though. You may have disturbed it while trying to slide the pipes in. Its a pretty quick simple process that may fix your shifting feel issue.

BTW, these are TK pipes, but I assume the VC pipes are of similar bend matching.

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-'87 Westy
-'90 Tintop
-'90 DOKA

[Terry Kay]

The pipes in no way shape or form will jump into the van magically.
You will get filthy dirty, probably get some grunge in your eyeballs, be spitting garbage outa your mouth.

A guy could pressure wash the entire underside of the van down prior to installation.

Taking pictures of what goes where will eliminate any "guess what's" after you have it disasembled.
It sure would be a big help.
You will forget stuff.

Not a terribly difficult task, just a little dirty & time consuming especially if you didn't take the time to take a couplr of pictures, or draw a map.

Draining all of the coolant helps a bunch.

To the OP;
Instead of venting here, why didn't you pick up the phone & call the VC direct ?

They don't post anything here, answer to any posts.
What good did your rant do by posting that message?

You're preaching & whining to the wrong audience.
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T.K.

[piruvan]

What do you mean TK? No rants allowed on The Samba? You could rule out a third of the posts since the website was created. Actually I made no mention of how dirty the job was (which it was) just how the finished install wasn't perfection. No point in calling VC to complain. Nothing wrong with their product other than not marking the pipes and not including some printed instructions. Maybe I'll suggest that to them.
I'll crawl back under the van and make some adjustments one day and it'll get closer to where I want it. Just posting to see if anyone's had the same install issues I did. And maybe a suggestion to rectify said issues.
Cheers!
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'89 Vanagon GL "Whitestar" Wolfsburg edition. 4-speed, 2.1L
'06 Accord EX-L 5-speed

[WLD*WSTY]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to give us some idea of what installing new pipes entails. It will make the job easier when we are ready to do the same upgrade! (Soon!)
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'82 SyncroWesty, the first ever conversion.'06 Subaru 2.5L

[Microbusdeluxe]

I just finished up this job and have a couple of suggestions. I have a syncro, so the coolant pipes are probably the one and only job that is easier to do on my rig than on a 2wd. After dropping the front skid plate and with no gas tank in the way, things open up quite nicely. However, that doesn't mean it's a piece of cake. I also replaced the radiator and both front hoses.

The first thing I did was to write down some notes. I called the pipes "inside" for the one running on the left hand side (facing forward) and "outside" for the other one. I wrote down which hose they connected to on the radiator end and which one on the engine end. I also noted, picture in the Bentley, the slight bend at the front that one pipe has. While this was clearly evident in the stainless steel pipes, it really isn't as noticeable in the old plastic ones.

I did the vacuum suck at the pressurized tank, opening the front bleeder to make it work. Elsewhere there is a good write-up on the radiator r&r. After lowering the radiator a bit I disconnected the front hoses at the plastic pipe and directed the old coolant into a bucket.

After disconnecting the pipes at the rear, more coolant in bucket, I pulled them out towards the rear. As you can see from the attached photos, I was losing 3 out of 4 ends.


I had a false start with joining the pipes and then trying to lift them into place so that they could be secured at the front of the van by the factory wire hanger. In my case, joining them first left me with a 6" vertical gap between the pipes and the frame, not good.

What worked better was to first unhook the heater hoses at the front and get them out of the way. Then put the front hanger in place, attach the rear most section of both pipes, with mid joint hose and clamps, to the rear (engine) hoses, leaving all clamps loose for now. Run the front sections of the pipe, inside one first, through the wire hanger and the too tight triangular hole in the chassis. Work them into the joint hose, twisting to get the right hang and clearance. Then run the heater hoses through that tight triangular opening and reattach them at the front.

I got my pipes from TK. Top quality and he was great about answering questions. I brought up the suggestion that the joints should be staggered, as having everything come together just aft of that tight frame opening really crowds things up. And the stainless steel pipes have no give. He said he used to do it that way but folks complained. Well what can you do?

Anyway, good luck. Judging by my pipes, a vehicle (1989, so newer than most) that had great German maintenance for many years and has only 85,000 miles on the clock, this is a job that you should do. A burst pipe won't engulf you in flames, but it sure can leave you stranded.

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'69 Squareback RIP
'65 21 window deluxe sold before the price spike, damn it.
'70 rhd bay now a taxi in South Sudan
'81 Westy sold
'89 hightop Westy Joker syncro 16" now with Bostig!

[djkeev]

Thanks for posting your experience with the pipes.

I didn't view it as a rant but rather a post saying..... "holy crap! THAT was a lot of work!"

Labeling pipes would be helpful I'm sure, Suggest that to VanCafe to help people who follow you.

Dave
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[VWinVT]

[Terry Kay]

I cannot imagine any of the other pipe suppliers providing the pipes without labeling to what end goes where.

I clearly mark the ends which end positions to what.

But--seeing as how they are jobbing out the pipes to who knows where--maybe they don't mark them.
Then when they get to them in a container, it would be one heck of a job to figure this out butt naked--and no clue which end hooks to what.



I have to call them today anyhow--I am going to ask what's up with this.
Good guys, they shouldn't have to deal with this kinda thing , it would be a nightmare to identify all the pipes and mark where they go outa the clear blue, & after they are built.

Edit;
No there isn't any instrtuctions, no the pipes are not marked from the mfg. what goes where.
This is how I think about this.
If a guy needs instructions he should be taking the van to somone who is mechanically inclined if it is too much to compare the old pipes to the new, no toolbox for you.

It would be pretty simple to as the old pipes are being removed to either take pictures or mark them where what goes where, and then compare them to the new pipes for reinstallation.
Do both.

This is pretty much a common sense issue, and not to difficult to grasp.

You have to figure it this way;
You're saving money by attempting to eliminated the shop & installation fees, be prepared to have your thinking cap on, and use the information you just have gleaned upon removal of the old pipes.

Do not lock everything down until you have everything in place, and the pipes are positioned & fit.

Then start tightening the clamps, then slide the heater hoses back through the crossmember.

This is the correct way of getting this job done pretty easy.

You could of very well called the vendor, and got the same info, or call a shop and have them installed for you.
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T.K.

[wasserbox]

[Jeffrey Lee]

To the OP, if you're having shifting problems after installing new coolant pipes, I suggest you soon crawl under the van and look for interferences. If the internal shift mechanism is not allowed to properly engage due to such external snags, you can quickly do permanent damage to the gearbox internals.

I recently began experiencing shifting problems on my 5-speed diesel, in which the shifter would fail to completely engage in 4th gear, popping out immediately after shifting. The rebuilder pointed to my shift system, so I rebuilt much of it (it was probably due anyway), but the problem persisted.

One day while under the van, I noticed this:

Fourth Gear

First Gear

I had recently replaced the coolant pipes, and though all four pipe sections are positioned and oriented correctly, the design of the center joints are not aligned as well (straight) as they should be. So the whole joint is offset toward the driver's side about 1/2" - 3/4". This misalignment plus the additional thickness of the rubber hose plus the screw mechanism of the clamp was enough to interfere with my shift rod universal joint when in 4th gear, preventing full engagement.

(Note that I had replaced the pipes several months earlier, but it took a few thousand miles for the problem to manifest ...)

I ended up wrestling the pipes over a bit, and loosened and clocked the offending clamps to orient the screws away from the shift rod universal joint, and this completely solved the shifting problem.
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[Wellington]

I have no experience with the specific Vancafe pipes.
I did buy Terry's pipes several years ago, each end was labelled, installation was a breeze. I did not drop my tank completely, but lowered the rear a bit to get a bit more room, and visual.

[Terry Kay]

I think it would be important for somebody to call their supplier.

So knowing this it would again be advised that whomever is doing the installation, mark the old pipes which end is which, left, right, up down, inside, outside, whatever.

I just have a real hard time imagining that the pipe matching is a big problem--and marking the pipes prior to removing them from the vehicle.

If a guy would have a hard time with this it would be to his benifit to have someone else do the job.
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T.K.

[DwarfVader]

It seems to me that the job of replacing the old plastic pipes with new shiny SS pipes is a pain in the ass no matter how you go about it... I've yet to see a thread of it just flying right by without some kind of hangup... And it seems like just a lot of work to get the new pipes to sit where and how the old pipes have sat for 25+yrs.
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- oderint dum metuant -

I'll find my van someday, or it will find me.

[greebly]

[Wildthings]

I had my daughter pick up a set of pipes from RMW a while back and I just tried to install them today, what a train wreck. I have the feeling that these must have been a couple of rejects that they decided to push off on a woman. The one pipe was fine, but the other pipe is totally FUBAR. The original plastic pipes run pretty much parallel but when you but these pipes together they have a gap between them of almost an inch in one place, they touch on the front end where there needs to be separation and the angle near the middle joint is off by about 5° in one place. It is would have been impossible to fit the original hangers the way the pipes were bent, just getting the middle strap on loosely was difficult and there is no possible way to have gotten either of the wire hangers on.

I took the rear half pipes into a muffler shop today and had them straighten one bend and then add a bend further along the same pipe so that the forward several feet of both pipes matched which improved their fit immensely. Tomorrow I will take the front half pipes in and have them reworked so the bends match pipe to pipe better. To get these front pipes to fit well I am going to have to straighten two bends, relocate one of them a bit and then add a bend that is totally missing in one pipe.

This has turned what should have been an easy job into a multi day project.

[piruvan]

OP here. Never thought installing ss pipes would effect how my van shifts, but it has. The front shift rod now pushes into the front drivers side ss pipe (above the gas tank) when engaged in first or second. Gears 3&4 are fine since that moves the shift rod away from the pipe (toward drivers side) And I really have to muscle it into reverse now. I now have about half the neutral side to side wiggle at the shifter and I can hear the shift rod bang against the pipe under the floor when I shake the stick. This interference is happening above the gas tank right next to the cross member hole the pipes and heater hoses pass through. I've tried pushing the pipes away from the rod but they barely budge now that the gas tank is buttoned up.
I'm 99% sure I did not mix up the front pipes when I did this job. I don't think I would've been able to bolt up the gas tank (I dropped the rear of the tank to install the pipes) with the front pipes mixed up. I suppose its possible. I had to use a jack to raise the gas tank after the pipes were installed and things were really tight up there. I want to get that shift rod clearance back. My question: try adjusting the shift linkage? (which was perfect before this job) OR drop the back of the gas tank and reorient the ss pipes? Do I want to remove the gas tank altogether? You all know the answer to that!
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'89 Vanagon GL "Whitestar" Wolfsburg edition. 4-speed, 2.1L
'06 Accord EX-L 5-speed

[Terry Kay]

So, this would make the inside pipe tight to the shift rods.

The inside tube doesn't have the kick in it up by the radiator.
Loosen up the clamps---all of them, and see if you can twist them away from the shift linkage a hair so they clear.
There are some funky bends above the tank, as well as back by the firewall, you may be able to twist your troubles away.

Be difficult to be able to tell you if you have them mis-matched, which could have caused you the problems.

You should have paid a little more attention when you removed the old pipes ,marked them, took some pictures or something.

Forget about that--it's all gone over the dam.
Try twisting in some clearance.
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T.K.

[Wildthings]

Where does Van Cafe get their pipes? Nice to know how many places actually manufacture the pipes and who sell what from each manufacturer.