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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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Last year summer time my dad was driving my 72 super and it over heated, killed the engine. I bought a 72 parts car and took the engine and rebuild it and put it in mine. Now just last Saturday on the highway it over heated. I live in Sacramento California and it was 100'F on Saturday. I'm dropping my engine, taking my heads off and checking my pistons and tightening my heads back on if everything is good (I'm getting 0 compression that's why I'm gonna look at the pistons) I feel like I need a external oil cooler but not sure the best rout to go.
Should I install it and where? I know if I install it I'm also putting a tac for the oil temp in.
But then I saw this video where the guy completely replaced the oil cooler and I don't know what's better?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Ixkusrq70
Please give me some advice. |
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Mos6502
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| Is the engine stock? Have you tried a simple solution like stand-offs for the deck lid already? |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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A stock engine shouldn't overheat in 100f weather. There are other issues going on. Get the motor drilled for full flow and use a filter but get the overheating sorted.
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FeelthySanchez
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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Zero compression means that at least a top end job is in order.
It's also a good opportunity to upgrade to FFF.
Assuming it's still in place, using the native/OEM doghouse oil cooler is some sound advice.
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| OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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If you have cooked the heads and cylinders, a bigger oil cooler won't really help you very much as they are air cooled. You need to know why the engine is overheating.
Are you running the stock thermostat? What carb and distributor? Original 1972 shroud and fan? All cooling tin in place? Original deck lid with slots? Rubber engine compartment seal in place?
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Brian
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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Yes everything is stock, yes it has the tin wear, I don't believe anything is missing.
I called up my local vw place and they said overheating in 100f weather is gonna happen cuz all its getting is hot air, now idk if they're right or not but it's only happens on the highway, to and from work it's fine (about 5 miles to work) but that's not an extended drive. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| I called up my local vw place and they said overheating in 100f weather is gonna happen cuz all its getting is hot air |
Only if something's terribly wrong, I'd drive anywhere in 100* weather, VW sold these cars in markets that got a whole lot warmer than that regularly without any issues.
Tell us about how you have that 009 timed, and what you found when you dismantled that new carb I see on your engine, any crap in the jets?, and exactly what jets were installed in there? Also describe how your last valve adjustment went.
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| I called up my local vw place and they said overheating in 100f weather is gonna happen cuz all its getting is hot air |
B.S. They work driving them in Arizona desert, 115F here !!!
| OrangeMango wrote: |
| it only happens on the highway |
Yes, these do run hotter at extended highway operation in hot weather. But I've made countless round-trips in mid-summer across I-10 to California and back to Arizona, and in 1835cc engine to boot !!!
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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OrangeMango Said Yes everything is stock, yes it has the tin wear, I don't believe anything is missing.
Something is obviously wrong. New professional build should be next.
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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The only recommendation VW made for hot weather driving was to use thicker oil ...
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Brian
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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You should NEVER need an external oil cooler for a stock engine. I live in CA also, and right now it's 104. However, I am still driving my 2010cc Baja down the freeways at 70 mph with 4:86 gearing (3,750 RPM). What am I using for cooling? A Type 4 cooler in the stock doghouse location, that's it. Yes its a little bigger then stock, but so is my engine. You are either having problems with your flaps, are too lean, or have too much timing.
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Mos6502
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2015
Posts: 725
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| Your sparkplugs should tell you if you're running too lean. What do they look like? |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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I lived in Modesto and drove a 71 super daily for two summers, even after an hour of freeway driving at 70MPH with a 1600DP engine, 21mm oil pump, 10/30 oil, I still had 15PSI idle hot pressure and 195° maximum oil temperature, with an outside temperature of 110° so something is missing or wrong with your engine. A properly built and lubricated engine should not need an external cooler, even up around 2L engine displacement. The engine is aircooled, not oil cooled, cooling the oil more will not being down head temps.
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| Been hotter than hell,times like these a fella needs to roll off the throttle,let it cruise..the boys at bugformance been doing this shit a long time.. |
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goober
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 1183
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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Cooking the engine and ending with zero compression is not good. Sounds like you've got major problems that an external cooler won't cure. We don't have the thermal mass of a water cooled engine. If the cooling system fails engine/head temps will build quickly to damaging levels. A cylinder head temp gauge should be standard equipment.
Do what others have recommended here. If you pull the heads replace all the exhaust valves. Check your cylinder head studs to determine if they're pulling out especially if they're the older 10mm studs mounted directly into the case.
As for coolers, this is what I'm running but it's not for everyone. I've never run the doghouse cooling system but everyone says it's the best way to go. I have a non-doghouse housing with the stock oil cooler removed and an adpter in it's place. There are winter advantages to putting the coolers after the pressure relief/control valves and out of the cooling air stream. The flap link on the non-doghouse is easily modified to go over the hoses. I've had no cooling problems in over 100 degF temps. Pushing hard down the highway, heads will stay under 340 degF.
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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OrangeMango
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| The spark plugs look fine, not burnt or anything. Running 10-40 oil on the trip. This engine I put new piston rings on, adjusted the valves the best I could myself, engine ran fine for an entire month (only has been in for little over a month) I had the cab rebuilt by a local shop my family trusts, has rebuilt all of our carbs for our cars. Studs are original and most of the nuts as well, might sound stupid to run original nuts but the damn ones from orilies always strip on me so I don't trust them anymore. |
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Bashr52
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Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| goober wrote: |
Cooking the engine and ending with zero compression is not good. Sounds like you've got major problems that an external cooler won't cure. We don't have the thermal mass of a water cooled engine. If the cooling system fails engine/head temps will build quickly to damaging levels. A cylinder head temp gauge should be standard equipment.
Do what others have recommended here. If you pull the heads replace all the exhaust valves. Check your cylinder head studs to determine if they're pulling out especially if they're the older 10mm studs mounted directly into the case.
As for coolers, this is what I'm running but it's not for everyone. I've never run the doghouse cooling system but everyone says it's the best way to go. I have a non-doghouse housing with the stock oil cooler removed and an adpter in it's place. There are winter advantages to putting the coolers after the pressure relief/control valves and out of the cooling air stream. The flap link on the non-doghouse is easily modified to go over the hoses. I've had no cooling problems in over 100 degF temps. Pushing hard down the highway, heads will stay under 340 degF.
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Wow, just wow. The advantage of this over just running the stock setup is??? |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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| OrangeMango wrote: |
| The spark plugs look fine, not burnt or anything. Running 10-40 oil on the trip. This engine I put new piston rings on, adjusted the valves the best I could myself, engine ran fine for an entire month (only has been in for little over a month) I had the cab rebuilt by a local shop my family trusts, has rebuilt all of our carbs for our cars. Studs are original and most of the nuts as well, might sound stupid to run original nuts but the damn ones from orilies always strip on me so I don't trust them anymore. |
Many factors can result in a heat related engine failure..since you've basically re ringed a used engine its hard to tell what caused it..proper ring fit and ring groove cleaning is critical for cylinder life for instance...tear it down and show the failure, its how to begin an analysis. |
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VWCOOL
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Engine runs too hot, need external cooler advice |
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You may need advice, but not about bling coolers....Check your engine bay tar board is not loose, and sucking into - and blocking - the fan
Some of us run double/treble the factory power in daily drivers at 100+F with standard everything |
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