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pdh
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2010
Posts: 74
Location: Navarre, Fl
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 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| I have located two restoration houses that will install a new convertible top in southern Alabama. One estimates 16 to 20 hours labor and says that's from actual Ghia installs. The other quotes 8 hours because that's what his repair book says. No experience. I have all the parts so that is not parts of the price. I need some advice. |
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SoCalJes
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2011
Posts: 1093
Location: Broward, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| pdh wrote: |
| I have located two restoration houses that will install a new convertible top in southern Alabama. One estimates 16 to 20 hours labor and says that's from actual Ghia installs. The other quotes 8 hours because that's what his repair book says. No experience. I have all the parts so that is not parts of the price. I need some advice. |
That's kind of tuff without seeing their previous work but my gut would tell me that the guy with no experience might be over his head when something doesn't go as planed as it usually does. Try going back to the other and haggle the price with an 8 hour quote.... Hope that helps
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Jesse
71 Ghia
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Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have. |
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e&m_ghia
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 418
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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We're with Jesse... Unless you've seen their work & have references from both places. 8 hours doesn't sound right, for someone who hasn't done this before. It will take longer, they will find some way to blame your car, convertible frame, parts you've supplied, whatever, for the fact that it's taking too long and will cost more.
And you'll get bumped to the back of the line while they find more excuses. Better to go with someone who knows these cars.
Our 73 Ghia came with a frame, no top. We figured it would be quick to have a professional do it. Even told them to leave out the rear glass, to make it easier. But not many would bid to do the top for a Ghia, when they'd done them before, because each job was custom fit & difficult to make money on...
Took a long time, and wasn't cheap. And then the stuff they did wrong had to be fixed by another restorer, that knew what he was doing. |
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bhartwell59
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 792
Location: dallas, tx
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swavananda
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009
Posts: 889
Location: Can o' Scruz
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| Go for the experienced . The unexperienced shop might assume your car is water cooled ,too. |
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:20 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| e&m_ghia wrote: |
We're with Jesse... Unless you've seen their work & have references from both places. 8 hours doesn't sound right, for someone who hasn't done this before. It will take longer, they will find some way to blame your car, convertible frame, parts you've supplied, whatever, for the fact that it's taking too long and will cost more.
And you'll get bumped to the back of the line while they find more excuses. Better to go with someone who knows these cars.
Our 73 Ghia came with a frame, no top. We figured it would be quick to have a professional do it. Even told them to leave out the rear glass, to make it easier. But not many would bid to do the top for a Ghia, when they'd done them before, because each job was custom fit & difficult to make money on...
Took a long time, and wasn't cheap. And then the stuff they did wrong had to be fixed by another restorer, that knew what he was doing. |
Why not contact a good upholstery shop which does convertible tops ?
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Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
Timing is everything |
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e&m_ghia
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 418
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:27 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| CiderGuy wrote: |
| e&m_ghia wrote: |
We're with Jesse... Unless you've seen their work & have references from both places. 8 hours doesn't sound right, for someone who hasn't done this before. It will take longer, they will find some way to blame your car, convertible frame, parts you've supplied, whatever, for the fact that it's taking too long and will cost more.
And you'll get bumped to the back of the line while they find more excuses. Better to go with someone who knows these cars.
Our 73 Ghia came with a frame, no top. We figured it would be quick to have a professional do it. Even told them to leave out the rear glass, to make it easier. But not many would bid to do the top for a Ghia, when they'd done them before, because each job was custom fit & difficult to make money on...
Took a long time, and wasn't cheap. And then the stuff they did wrong had to be fixed by another restorer, that knew what he was doing. |
Why not contact a good upholstery shop which does convertible tops ? |
Actually, for us, the first shop was an upholstery place that does convertible tops. But apparently hadn't done any Ghia tops, and they didn't know how it all fit together... (The "upholstery" part was fine, but it didn't work right mechanically.)
A "restoration" shop fixed it - they specialized in VW's, so they knew what they were doing with our car. (In retrospect, it would have been a lot quicker, and probably no more expensive, if we started with them. Even though they were about 2 hours away, instead of ~30 minutes for the upholsterer.) |
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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I seem to recall reading that the experienced craftsman working at the Karmann factory took 8 hours to do a top. Now they did this without benefit of a kit but it was something they did every day.
Having done a Ghia top myself 16 to 20 hours is a reasonable amount of time for an experienced person. IMO Eight hours would be for someone who has done this a lot.
If you have all the parts why not do it yourself? I had never done upholstery work before I did mine. I followed the postings and video here. It came out great and works great. My local upholstery shop wanted $1K in labor to do it. I learned a lot. Enjoyed doing it and saved a bunch of money.
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| pdh wrote: |
| I have located two restoration houses that will install a new convertible top in southern Alabama. One estimates 16 to 20 hours labor and says that's from actual Ghia installs. The other quotes 8 hours because that's what his repair book says. No experience. I have all the parts so that is not parts of the price. I need some advice. |
If you look through the thread that bhartwell59 linked to earlier, and also through this Karmann Ghia Shop Manual A83A - Ghia Top Assembly pdf found here on The Samba, you can quickly see that the job is very complicated, time consuming and labor intensive.
It would seem to me that even if the second shop is completely competant and has lot of experience with replacing tops on other makes/models, if they have no actual previous experience with replacing a Ghia Cabriolet top then there is little chance that they will be able to do the job in the 8 hour time frame that the book of standard labor rates specifies.
The 8 hour labor quote still adds up to a significant cost in my opinion, so the shop owners should certainly be open to answering a few questions and perhaps even providing references.
If I were you I would specifically ask if that quote represents a firm final total cost, or if there may be additional labor charges if the job ends up being significantly more difficult or time consuming than expected.
Perhaps even print out that pdf cabriolet top replacement shop manual and allow the shop owner to take a look at exactly what the job entails.
(Although I'm sure there are some differences between the cabriolet top details on the 1960 model featured in that document and your later model Ghia, I believe that the overall job remains largely the same.)
You may also want to consider trying to put a "price" on what it is worth to you to have the job done correctly and filter that through your ultimate objectives with the project.
If your goal is to end up with a functional replacement cabriolet top (opens and closes properly, has a neat appearance, seals out the rain, etc.) for a Ghia that is more of a "driver" and you won't lose any sleep knowing that some of the details of the job aren't quite "correct" (stitching doesn't have the correct number loops/inch, etc.), then you may be perfectly happy with the results from the shop that has never done one before.
However, if you are expecting to end up with a replacement cabriolet top that is accurate in all details for a Ghia that you intend to show more than drive, and you know going in that you are the type of person that just won't be happy if everything isn't done "just so", then it just may be worth paying more to get a result that you can comfortably live with.
Obviously these examples are meant to represent the extreme ends of the spectrum, and only you can know exactly where you and your ultimate goals fall on the scale - I'm just trying to throw out some food for thought. |
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kman
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 739
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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| It took me over 40 to do mine (1st time) to get down to 8 you would have to do it all day every day. 16-20 sounds about right for someone who has done a few. |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: Re: 71 Ghia convertible |
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