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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: Headlight switch |
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| Any body have an extra headlight switch laying around? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
| Any body have an extra headlight switch laying around? |
What part #?
There were three over the years:
411 941 531--to chassis # 410 2100 000
411 941 531 A--From chassis # 411-2000 001
411 941 531 B--From chassis # 411-2000 001
I will have to look in the books to see what the connection differences were between them.
I know in a pinch...you "can" use the identically wired type 3 switch that has the same letter code prefix. Usually a part # of 311 941 531 or the A of B version.
But..there is a difference in the type 3 and type 4 parts. The type 3 unit has a shorter snout where it fits into the depression from the back of the dash.
You will notice on both parts that there is a notch in the neck of the switch where the outer bezel screws into the switch. This notch engages with a dimple pressed into the back side of the dash.
No mater which switch you use...the dimple MUST, MUST, MUST be engaged in the notch on the switch housing and the outer bezel must be threaded TIGHT. If not, the switch rotates....and the + wires on the switch will contact the metal of the dash...and you will either blow booth of your main power fuses at best...and at worst light the underside of your dash on fire.
If this fuse pops when you are driving...you will lose ALL power including lights and emergency flashers...everything dead.
So...using the type three switch....you must be extra careful to insure your wires are insulated from contact on the back of the dash.
You also have to use the type 3 outer knob pull with the type 3 switch because the stem is shorter as well.
I have been meaning to make an adapter ring with thread to allow easier adaptation of the easier to find type 3 switch.
I may have a spare switch but you need to know the part #.
Also what happened to your old one? Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Ray it is part#411 941 531 A |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| My switch is falling apart for some reason and now my headlights do not work |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
| My switch is falling apart for some reason and now my headlights do not work |
Ok.....do you mean that the plastic part with the electrical terminals is coming away from the metal body?
If so...if it does not totally come apart under the dash and lose any of the springs or check balls....I can shkw you how to fix it
If the plastic top plate is not cracked...then its a matter of reassembly.....after yu vrease the internal glides and retention balls...and then carefully crimping the metal body tight at the four crimp points.
They come loose...because as the grease dries up they get increasing harder to operate and you pull and push too hard and it,wiggles the plastic plate away from the crimps.
You need to disconnect the battery and remove the switch to look at it. Ray |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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As usual....with 411 and 412.....it geta even more strange. I have found in my collection....another 411/412 headlight switch that does not appear in my factory parts book. It must be for the very late models.
Part # 411 941 531 D.
Pictures in the morning. Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Thanks Ray |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
| Thanks Ray |
So tell us what is wrong with your switch?
Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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Ray,
The switch is coming apart, I tried to squeeze it back together but then when you pull the switch it will not go in or out, If you let it separate it will go in and out. Will the switch also have an effect on the tail lights? Now my blinkers have stopped working. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
Ray,
The switch is coming apart, I tried to squeeze it back together but then when you pull the switch it will not go in or out, If you let it separate it will go in and out. Will the switch also have an effect on the tail lights? Now my blinkers have stopped working. |
Ok....there are slider contacts, detent balls and springs inside. What has happened is that the balls and springs have fallen out of place. Its not...unfixable...but as long as you have not lost any of the parts or broken the plastic plate....it can be done. Its tedious.
You will need some circuit cleaner or fast drying solvent and some synthetic grease like Superlube (four ounce tubes at harbor freight and many FLAPS).
You will need some o-ring picks etc. I will see if I can get a how to together. Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Thanks again ray, I have every thing already, just worried about opening it up and parts flying every where! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
| Thanks again ray, I have every thing already, just worried about opening it up and parts flying every where! |
I disassembled two switches tonight and took pictures. I should have it up by tomorrow.
These switches are really well built. Unless they are really corroded inside they can be fixed.
Once you see the picture sequence.....you will see that its,really simple. But......you need to be prepared to keep several parts from springing out on you as you disassemble it.
As long as you know what its going to do....you can do it without any problems.
Inside there are two detent balls, 8 springs and three sliding connectors. There is a really simple..but exact sequence for taking this apart. I will outline it tomorrow.
In the worst case.....many of these have a damaged rheostat coil.....which means that ....unless you replace that coil (working on that one)....everything will function. ..on/off for headlights and parking/marker lights.....but without the rheostat...the instrument lights only have one level.....high.....which is no big deal because the instruments were kind of dim anyway.
On repacement switches. The type 3 and late type 1 switch of the correct part # is the same switch...but with a shorter snout. I am working on a,snout extender bushing fix fo allow using type 3 switches. Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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Ray,
Your Saying The type 3 and late type 1 switch of the correct part # is the same switch? I can not locate one with my part #. They All start with a 3 instead of 4. Will the shorter snout reach through my dash? I will try and fix mine first after you post what i need to do. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
Ray,
Your Saying The type 3 and late type 1 switch of the correct part # is the same switch? I can not locate one with my part #. They All start with a 3 instead of 4. Will the shorter snout reach through my dash? I will try and fix mine first after you post what i need to do. |
That is the exact problem. The shorter snout on the type well 1 and 3 switch will not allow it to be used in the type 4 car.
I have a sketch for a screw on adapter for the type 1/3 switch.....but have not tested it yet.
The problem is not that the switch does not reach through the dash......thats not how they work.
No part of the switch reaches through the dash. The longer snout on the type 4 switch is designed to keep the wires and contacts away from the metal of the dash. In fact.....the notch in the snout is critical.
There is a pressed in dimple in the steel form behind the dash. That dimple locates in the notch of the snout. It not only prevents the switch from rotating while you tughten the outer screw bezel.......more importantly it keeps the switch from rotating and bringing the wires up against the metal.
This is a big problem......this is not in any books. If you do not bold the switch in the proper orientation.....first starting the outer bezel in....then slightly rotate the switch until you feel the notch in the snout drop onto the dimple.....then tighten the bezel nut.
If the notch is not on the dimple the switch is at a slight angle. This makes the bezel nut not stay tight and the switch keeps working loose.
The switch does not have much wire slack in the loom. It generally only fits/reaches.....at one range of angle. If the switch rotates 20° one direction or the other......the wires will short on the dash metal.
The switch is actually in an assymetrical cone shaped hole in the back of the dash metal plate. Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Ray is this the part # for late type 1? 113941531E. I have my switch out and ready to try and rebuild, but just in case i need to order 1. Also Some type 3 switches only have 6 connections vs 7 like the 412. Just waiting on your guidance. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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I will have to look in the Bentley....but according to the wiring diagram in the Haynes.....the 12 volt USA model type 3 light switches have the same number of connections....same number designations and going to roughly the same outputs and inputs..
There is a six pin switch 311 941 531 B for ghia, beetle and type 3 through 1970. Ot looks...pin wise....identical to 411 941 531 D....Which is 1974 412....but will work in earlier models. I will have to check the pin out numbers.
There is also an 8 pin switch #113 941 531 E that lists late type 3, late ghia and late beetle through 1974.
I do not know what the spare pins are for. I will find out.
Stay with the type 3 part as it is more similar in wiring layout than beetle and ghia.
The document will be up before noon tomorrow. Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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Ray,
My switch has 7 pins. Where do i connect the 7th wire? There are 2 red wires do I splice them together and make them 1? I am assuming they are both power feeds. Have you gotten a chance on the rebuild procedure yet? I have mine open and it looks like 1 spring came out of the plastic holder that holds 4 springs in it as you are looking in from the top. 2 bearings where out. Do the bearings sit on top of 2 springs?(1 per side of the plastic slide/holder?) |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| 1973 412 WAGON wrote: |
Ray,
My switch has 7 pins. Where do i connect the 7th wire? There are 2 red wires do I splice them together and make them 1? I am assuming they are both power feeds. Have you gotten a chance on the rebuild procedure yet? I have mine open and it looks like 1 spring came out of the plastic holder that holds 4 springs in it as you are looking in from the top. 2 bearings where out. Do the bearings sit on top of 2 springs?(1 per side of the plastic slide/holder?) |
Slow down.....there are at 270 pictures to go though to place about 65. It will be around noon as noted.
Also.....there is a sequence to take this apart....depending on what version of the switch. If you are no careful you can damage the rheostat for the dash light dimmer.....if it still works.
Ray |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Thanks Ray, Just anxious to see if I can fix it. |
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1973 412 WAGON
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2015
Posts: 68
Location: N.Dinwiddie VA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Headlight switch |
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| Ray, So do I use the 2 red wires as one on the type 3 switch? Since it only has 6 pins verses 7? |
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