Rating Scale for Westy's - What am I missing? Advice wanted!

[SeekineWesty]

My family and I rented a Westy last week from California Campers and loved it...now I'm hooked. My guess is the "bargain's" are not at the low end but instead the vans people have invested $40k and sell for $25k. I am a sports car guy at heart but these things seem to be priced emotionally and with a huge degree of variance. More like hot rods maybe? Anyway to try to compare amongst disparate options I built a spreadsheet and a scoring system and wanted to see what you guys thought? I am sure I am weighting certain things wrong and missing other big ticket items entirely. I am concentrating on 86-91 so no offense to any older fantastic vans. But starting from the GoWesty and their values I adjusted up 80% for a base value and then adjusted upward for upgrades I like (personal opinion - I like the Suby 2.2L slightly better than the GoWesty 2.3....can I say this on this board without igniting a riot?) Also, I think it's like with houses. For example a Kitchen, Deck or Bath remodel returns more of the investment than upgrading the foundation, putting on a new roof etc. so while I may value an investment in insulation, accessory ports or inverters, it is probably not going to add a lot to what I am willing to pay. Whereas a new Subaru/ GoWesty / Vanistan etc. engine is a plus for me and adds value. This is where I need your guidance. What should I work for I am budgeting $20-28k.

BODY (Rate 1-5, 5 perfect) $5,000
Zero rust, staight, no accidents, dent and scratch free would be a 5 out of 5
Verify no rust undercarriage
Door rocker
Window seals
Seams

PAINT $3,000
Windows out high quality job +2
Original paint good, few minor dents and scratches, re-spray same color +1
Scratched, dented, faded 0
Bad respray possibly hiding rust etc. -1

3/3=100%

ENGINE / COOLING (+$6,000 over good running OEM) $6,000
OEM 2.1L Rebuilt / Less than $50k *will check out with compression and Leakdown 0
Professional Rebuild <25k (but mainly stock) +1
Stock cooling -1
Upgraded cooling (MUST) +1
Subaru EJ22 OBD1 Professional Installation / Documentation +3
GoWesty 2.3 +2
GoWesty 2.2 +1
GoWesty or Rebuilt Transmission <30K +1
Differential? Locking +1
10/10=100%

BRAKES $1,000
Van has sat, needs full flush / probably rebuild -1
Stock, recent svc >50% remain +1
South African Brakes / 320I calipers etc +2
Go Westy Big Brake +3

6/6=100%

SUSPENSION $1,000
OEM, refresh of shocks, springs, bushing / tie rods - <15k miles +1
Bilstein's +2
GoWesty Suspension Kit (shocks + springs) +3
Upgraded/ Go Westy Wheels +1
Tires >50% remaining +1

8/8=100%

INTERIOR (+$1,000 IF PRISTINE with Upgrades $1,000
100% Complete and Functional 0
Missing X Cost to Replace? -1
PopTop Condition -1= replace now, 0 = good, 1 = newer/excellent 0
Sink and Stove (working) 0
Working fridge +1
Replacement refrigerator +2
Dynamat Installation +1
LED/ Stereo / Auxilary Outlets / Deep Cycle Battery +1
Solar +1

7/7=100%

EXTERIOR (+1,000) $1,000
Upgraded Bumper (Front) +1
Upgraded Bumper (Rear) +1
Tire Carrier and 5th Wheel +1
Canopy +1
Other ________ +1

5/5=100%

This looked a whole lot better in Excel....Anyway what would you add or weigh differently?

[SeekineWesty]

Forgot! Here is the start point adjusting up 80% from GoWesty Values.

80% (plus $10k Synchro) GO WESTY PRICE ADJUSTMENT -GOOD CONDITION
80-82 Air cooled steer clear of these X No (for me)
83-85 . 7,000 12600
86-87 ‘86-‘87 pop-top Vanagons run about $6-8k 8,000 14400
88-89 Nice, un-restored, ‘88-‘89s run about $7-9k, 9,000 16200
90-91 and ‘90-‘91s run about $8-12k 11,000 19800

[Merian]

Body Rust - subtract $10,000 to $40,000

Buy in the Fall or Winter and be happy
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[davevickery]

I'd say that is too analytical. Just look at how much you have to spend and find the best van you can in that price range.

A GW 2.2 or 2.3 engine would be a good upgrade and eliminate a lot of potential conversion issues you might run into with a subaru 2.2. If you get a good Subaru 2.2 you won't have issues, but the chances of getting a troublesome conversion vs. a GW 2.2 or 2.3 is higher. Power differeence isn't that huge a deal in a 2wd van (A syncro usually has bigger tires which robs more power).

I'd look at vans that have been driven. Miles don't scare me. poor maintenance does. A well loved and long owned camper that was taken on long trips is a good bet even if it hasn't been used much in recent years. You should always budget some post purchase stuff like tires, brakes, etc.

A van with a few upgrades is nice to see. Usually those things get added after the basic mechanicals are all solid. A bone stock van is nice too if it has a folder of receipts. Lots of people own a Westy for 10 years and after the kids are not into camping, the van sits for a few then time to pass it on.

You can't create too long a list of requirements or you will never get a van. You just want to avoid getting screwed. Look at every one that comes up locally, and at some point be ready to pull the trigger quickly when something special comes up for sale. There will always be surprises, but knowing what you are looking at, having it checked mechanically, and having a a little extra budget to deal with the surprises is all you need.

[djkeev]

Your numbers are interesting and was a most excllent exercise in cost gathering.

But.....

You are trying to assign solid numbers to a market of slush.

There are no absolutes in the used car business. Everything is market driven and emotional.

Yes, there are definite features that make a unit easier to sell and hence more valuable, but again, no absolutes apply.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[dobryan]

In general you have a realistic total budget.

You did not say if you are able to do the maintenance or will have to have a shop do that. It makes a big difference in the full cost of ownership.

My advice is to look hard for a Westy that is from an area with no salt (ie not rusty at all) and then assume that many of the mechanicals will need work as time goes on.

Initial purchase price at $10-15k with $5-10k for repairs/upgrades will get you quite a nice bus. Be aware that they will ALWAYS need work. Even the ones that go on long trips without trouble didn't get that way by accident. A lot of work goes into keeping them reliable.. YMMV.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Ahwahnee]

[MayorMcCheese]

"Upgraded cooling" is unnecessary, "maintained cooling" is more like it

[djkeev]

[DenverB]

all of this goes out the window when you find a sweet old lady with her one-owner, sub-90k mile van that just wants it out of the garage.

keep searching craigslist nationwide. move on ads with no pictures (little old ladies don't like using computers very much).

really, if you want to put in the owrk you can get in these way cheaper than even someone's discounted 'refurbished' van.

i also second looking at the older vans (not air cooled). Ditch the slug 1.9 liter in there and get a new bullet -- your early vanagon will kick ass with the larger engine and older FI system. We've got a 2.2 in an 84 and it's my favorite van by far (nomatter what anyone says, you dont need power steering!)
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)

www.RockyMountainCampervans.com

[SeekineWesty]

Thanks for the advice and thoughts! I'm not looking for a project, as I have a kit car sitting in storage already (Exomotive Exocet - except drooping in Acura/ Honda K24A2...1400 lbs and 240ish HP . So I am looking for reliability and the ability to go camp now while my daughter is young.

While I might find a better bargain one like this sounds pretty good to me.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5669263888.html

Any thoughts? The no rust is big and mechanically it sounds strong (all would need to be verified though. Thanks.

[Steve M.]

if your going for zero rust then your looking in the southwest states.
The trade off here is dried out rubber from the heat so a future cost would be replacing window seals, rubber hoses, the all important fuel lines.

No one has mentioned fuel lines yet so let me be the first to tell you that this is the most single important thing you must do when you buy one. It is the first thing you should do literally the first weekend you own it. They dry out, they leak and then you have a BBQ.
Your in the right forum for information so start out by gathering all the information you can and copy and paste it into your own bible. You have questions and we have answers. Not every answer is right for every situation, but 99% has been covered and it's here for you. At the very top of the page is where you should start, but at the same time ask questions. Some people will balk at your questions saying do a search, but screw 'em. Questions and the interacting answers are what keeps the forum alive. There are so many forums that have fallen by the wayside because people do not talk.
Welcome to the addiction.

[dobryan]

[Ahwahnee]

[SeekineWesty]

Thanks guys. I thought about chance of stealing also owner may be viewing as well but information is useful. Actually was asking about a track car once on Pelican Parts BBS and all the owners friends chimed in and crushed what I perceived as flaws on said vehicle. Wrecked my negotiating position but this owner is firm at a price and seems like a straight up guy so I'll take my chances. It's enough money I would want a PPI from 523Rods or BusLab.

So we talk about Westy's appreciating...above mentioned car was a 73 911 RS clone with a 3.0 I bought at $18k sold at $23k after 4 years thought I was smart....till they essentially tripled in value over the last few years...whoops!

[davevickery]

The removed AC would turn me off on that van. At 18K, I would accept that they took out the AC, but not at 27K. It would have been that expensive to fix when it was all complete and at a minimum they should have left everything in tact. And it is an 87, 27K without any other major upgrades is on the high side.

This one looks similar but more aggressively priced
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1953076

[Howesight]

It is reasonable to expect that a buyer with deep pockets can get an excellent deal on a Westy that has had expensive upgrades and/or major maintenance done by the seller. Things to look for, in my opinion, would be:

1. New or excellent paint. This can't be over-emphasized.
2. California-compliant engine swap. There are essentially two, the 1.8T and the Subaru 2.2. There is also the "grey area" 2.5 litre "frankenmotor" Subaru option. The most desirable is the 1.8T. A stock engine (even rebuilt) is not for me, but YMMV.
3. Compressor Fridge (and deep cycle house battery) already installed.
4. Modern wheels and tires (15" or preferably 16")
5. New or excellent-condition pop top tent;
6. All-new cooling system parts (water pump, rad, all hoses)
7. Factory AC.
8. If the vehicle is not a 1991, then a rebuilt transaxle.
9. Upgraded headlights (eg South African grille).
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[chrisfreemanca]

[the joker]

Enough about westy value find one build it up enjoy


would like to hear more about Cali rentals ( /condition etc.)
what to come from east coast(don't have the time to drive mine there till I retire)
I plan on renting one and heading to the kings canyon redwood area
only real concern is the extra charge for the over 120 miles a day also would love info on s#%! to do in that general area

[cmayna]

SeekineWesty,
Wife and I also rented from Cali Campers for 3 years. Sold my '68 Mustang so I could buy our own westy. Found a '90 in San Jose from original owners with 110k miles on it. In very nice condition. All original equip.

As I and others have done, you will want to review the condition of the coolant and fuel lines on whatever rig you end up getting. This is just the beginning. You will find many lists of essential things to do or check, on this wonderful site.

Good luck and keep us posted with what you decide on.

Craig
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'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.


Craig