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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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 Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: Pertronix SVDA review |
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When I purchased my 68 Sedan it came with a 1600DP AE case. I wasn't shocked when I discovered the car had a 009 installed on it. Try as I may, I couldn't get the notorious flat spot to go away. I was going to get a breaker point SVDA but last minute I found a Pertronix unit on Amazon for a good price. Installation was pretty strait forward. Yes, its hard to push down into the case. Lube and patients wins the day! Red wire to Coil POS and black to Coil NEG. Car started on first crank! Set timing (28* at 3000rpm, around 14* at idle) and took for a test drive. All my wildest dreams came true! No flat spot, car accelerated up to cruise without any hiccups. I highly recommend to anyone.
-Nick- |
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Old n' slow
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012
Posts: 619
Location: Western Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Get a Shepherd's Hook in there or you will ruin the vacuum advance.
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superbugdave
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2013
Posts: 57
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| Old n' slow wrote: |
| Get a Shepherd's Hook in there or you will ruin the vacuum advance. |
Curious, whats a "Shepherds Hook"?
My set up was the same as OP's before I tore the engine out and apart..... Had installed a new Pertronix and no longer had to deal with the flat spot either.... Never heard of Shepherds Hook..... |
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67rustavenger 
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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This is on a DVDA but give you the idea of the "shepherds" hook.
FWIW I have never ran one and have not had a failure issue.
Good Luck.
_________________
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Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| Quote: |
Curious, whats a "Shepherds Hook"?
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The "Shepherd's Hook" is suppose to protect the vacuum canister from gas draining down the vacuum line from the carburetor. Didn't have one on my engine either, so I made one from 3/16" steel brake line. |
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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Essentially I need the vacuum line to go above the carb before it reached the canister, right?
-Nick- |
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superbugdave
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2013
Posts: 57
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| David_nc_72std wrote: |
| Quote: |
Curious, whats a "Shepherds Hook"?
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The "Shepherd's Hook" is suppose to protect the vacuum canister from gas draining down the vacuum line from the carburetor. Didn't have one on my engine either, so I made one from 3/16" steel brake line. |
ahhh that makes sense.... |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| nbuscemi wrote: |
Essentially I need the vacuum line to go above the carb before it reached the canister, right?
-Nick- |
Yes or at least above the vacuum port on the carb.
Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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johneliot
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 2189
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Just get a longer piece of hose and put it under the air filter clip
[/img]
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There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
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Hatracks
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016
Posts: 664
Location: Renton, WA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| nbuscemi wrote: |
When I purchased my 68 Sedan it came with a 1600DP AE case. I wasn't shocked when I discovered the car had a 009 installed on it. Try as I may, I couldn't get the notorious flat spot to go away. I was going to get a breaker point SVDA but last minute I found a Pertronix unit on Amazon for a good price. Installation was pretty strait forward. Yes, its hard to push down into the case. Lube and patients wins the day! Red wire to Coil POS and black to Coil NEG. Car started on first crank! Set timing (28* at 3000rpm, around 14* at idle) and took for a test drive. All my wildest dreams came true! No flat spot, car accelerated up to cruise without any hiccups. I highly recommend to anyone.
-Nick- |
What is your idle RPM at with timing at 14? I have the same SVDA and ended up with about the same about of advance you have so with it at 7.5 i end up all in at about 2500 RPM.
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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Yes, 14* at idle with the hose connected to distributor. All in, I am about 28* at 3000 rpm. I tried using 7.5* at idle but car ran like crap from idle to about 1500rpm and at slow cruise.
-Nick- |
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pb_foots
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 1089
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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I apologize in advance for being a grammar Nazi, but it's 'Shepherd's crook', not hook.
it's a curved stick for grabbing sheep around the neck, or in the case of the Sandman at the Apollo, dragging off crappy stage acts.
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| nbuscemi wrote: |
Yes, 14* at idle with the hose connected to distributor. All in, I am about 28* at 3000 rpm. I tried using 7.5* at idle but car ran like crap from idle to about 1500rpm and at slow cruise.
-Nick- |
Really? 14 is high...BUt what is your idel speed. Should e around 850. Mine tycally 7.5 to 10 with max around 30 or 32.
Double check the idle rpm with and without the vac connected. Should not change. If it does you have an issue withe the vac circuit in the carb or your idle is too high.
_________________
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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Good point. I have it set to 925-950 rpm. That would explain why I'm at 14*. I'll have to check. The port the dist is hooked up to... is that manifold vacuum or ported vacuum?
-Nick- |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| nbuscemi wrote: |
| Good point. I have it set to 925-950 rpm. That would explain why I'm at 14*. I'll have to check. The port the dist is hooked up to... is that manifold vacuum or ported vacuum? |
Idle should be 800-950rpm so you are good. This DOESN'T explain your high idle timing. Normally, mechanical advance doesn't start to kick in until 1000-1200rpms. If you are seeing mechanical advance at 950rpm your mechanical advance is malfunctioning. Confirm this by checking your static timing. It should be the same as your idle timing.
The idle timing for SVDA is measured with the vacuum hose DISCONNECTED and plugged. It is possible your vacuum advance is seeing some vacuum at idle and adding some advance to your reading because you have the hose connected while measuring. There is no spec for SVDA timing at idle with vacuum connected. Most of the time it doesn't make a difference. Redo your idle timing reading with the hose disconnected and see if there is a difference.
The possible problem with an actual idle timing of 14BTDC is it could indicate a problem with your mechanical advance. The original SVDA distributor from VW (034/205) had a mechanical advance spec of 20-25deg @3800rpm. Subtracting that from the 28BTDC you set total advance should leave you with an idle timing of 3-8BTDC. If you are only getting 14BTDC it means your mechanical advance is robbing you of 6deg of timing advance. That is a noticeable amount.
You didn't ID your carb. The left side vacuum advance differs between carb models. Assuming you have a 34Pict on your DP manifold... the left side vacuum port is "ported vacuum".
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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I need to hook a vacuum gauge to the advance port on my car (EMPI 34PICT-3). If I set my idle timing to 7-8* BTDC it'll idle just fine... but the flat spot is still there. Advancing it to 14* clears it up. I'd be willing to bet the carb is not advancing like it's supposed to. The carb I have is pretty tired... looking to buy a new one (volksbits).
-Nick- |
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vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7307
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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The carb doesn't advance, the distributor does. I wont buy pertronix products based on past experience. That same svda didn't Las a year. 1st the Vacuum can went bad, and the mechanical advance sucked by itself. I had a pertronix ignition on a German svda that went bad in less than a year. And a flame thrower coil that lasted 6 months. Their products are crap, and it sounds like your unit is not advancing properly.
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nbuscemi
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| vamram wrote: |
| The carb doesn't advance, the distributor does. I wont buy pertronix products based on past experience. That same svda didn't Las a year. 1st the Vacuum can went bad, and the mechanical advance sucked by itself. I had a pertronix ignition on a German svda that went bad in less than a year. And a flame thrower coil that lasted 6 months. Their products are crap, and it sounds like your unit is not advancing properly. |
Yeah, funny you mention that. I went out to car, pulled the carb. Made sure the vacuum port were clear... they were. Reinstalled. Started car, hooked up timing light. Gave it some gas and noticed that I had NO advance until around 2K rpm. Just for shits and grins, I attached the dist. to manifold vacuum. No advance. Opened up the distributor and discoverd that the advance plate that the vac canister is attached to was stuck full advance. The vac canister arm was bound up. I had to open up the holes that mount the canister to the dist body. This allowed free motion of advance arm from canister. Set timing 30* at 3000rpm (vac unplugged) and 7* at idle with vac plugged in. Test drive confirmed. No flat spot.
-Nick- |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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| nbuscemi wrote: |
| Yeah, funny you mention that. I went out to car, pulled the carb. Made sure the vacuum port were clear... they were. Reinstalled. Started car, hooked up timing light. Gave it some gas and noticed that I had NO advance until around 2K rpm. Just for shits and grins, I attached the dist. to manifold vacuum. No advance. Opened up the distributor and discoverd that the advance plate that the vac canister is attached to was stuck full advance. The vac canister arm was bound up. I had to open up the holes that mount the canister to the dist body. This allowed free motion of advance arm from canister. |
The mechanical advance and vacuum advance work independently. One can advance while the other retards. Very odd that both were stuck.
| nbuscemi wrote: |
| Set timing 30* at 3000rpm (vac unplugged) and 7* at idle with vac plugged in. Test drive confirmed. No flat spot. |
The 7BTDC should be with vacuum hose DISCONNECTED.
Or, as a test, did you again check the idle timing with the vacuum hose connected to intake vacuum? You should see 8-12deg of timing advance added by the vacuum advance when connected to intake vacuum. Test this by connecting/disconnecting the hose from the vacuum can and seeing the timing difference. No difference means the vacuum advance is broken. This also confirms how much advance the vacuum advance is providing.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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andk5591
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Pertronix SVDA review |
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Not sure if the 34 will do the same thing that my 28 PICT1 did a few years ago. My vac port went into the venturi but also I believe below the throttle plate. It was clogged going into the venturi, so it was pulling vacuum at idle. I cleared the obstruction and the advance at idle went away.
I am SURE the vacuum circuit diagram is on here and you can confirm that this may be an issue with your carb. I have played with plenty of 34s and have not had the idle advace impacted by the vacuum connection.
And totally agree that if you need a carb and you are keeping your car, spring for one of Tim's. Otherwise the $100 to $130 Empi 34 PICt3 that is currently available is surprisingly nice.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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